Any Scotch drinkers in the house?

[Wormius]

Does scotch, or other liquors/wines for that matter, improve with age after they're bottled? I was just thinking that most of the "good" stuff happens while its in the oak cask, right? What kind of reactions would be going on in a glass bottle that would improve the flavours after decades have gone by or will a scotch just taste like it did that day, say 42 years ago?

[Nyah]

Anyone know where I can find a bottle of the Balvenie Triple Cask 12 or 16 year? I've looked in all my local liquor stores, Willowpark and World of Whiskey's downtown and no one carries it.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Does scotch, or other liquors/wines for that matter, improve with age after they're bottled? I was just thinking that most of the "good" stuff happens while its in the oak cask, right? What kind of reactions would be going on in a glass bottle that would improve the flavours after decades have gone by or will a scotch just taste like it did that day, say 42 years ago?

As far as I know distilled alcohol like scotch doesn’t improve once it’s bottled. Fermented products can.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

As far as I know distilled alcohol like scotch doesn’t improve once it’s bottled. Fermented products can.

Correct, once it's bottled it won't change.

[zarrell]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Anyone know where I can find a bottle of the Balvenie Triple Cask 12 or 16 year? I've looked in all my local liquor stores, Willowpark and World of Whiskey's downtown and no one carries it.

Olympia liquor just north of willow park had a decent selection when I was there this week. Try co op too.

[Wormius]

So what drives that price so high for some older scotches? The year it was produced what just an exceptional tasting scotch, and nothing to do with the actual age of the scotch, except for the increasing rarity as time goes on.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So what drives that price so high for some older scotches? The year it was produced what just an exceptional tasting scotch, and nothing to do with the actual age of the scotch, except for the increasing rarity as time goes on.

It’s just rarity. But, exceptionally old scotches are unreal. I got a Highland Park 30 year old as a wedding gift from my groomsmen and it’s hands down the best scotch I’ve ever had. I’ll be sad when I finish the bottle.

It’s also a scotch that I love to share. I mean, when else will you taste a dram like that?

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Does scotch, or other liquors/wines for that matter, improve with age after they're bottled? I was just thinking that most of the "good" stuff happens while its in the oak cask, right? What kind of reactions would be going on in a glass bottle that would improve the flavours after decades have gone by or will a scotch just taste like it did that day, say 42 years ago?

In fact, once you open them, they will start to oxidize. If you have a good one and want to keep it fresh, use something like Private Preserve. I had a Glenfiddich 21 limited edition that I got in the UK, and once it got below a quarter, it oxidized so badly, it was undrinkable. Learned my lesson, and I use private preserve on my best bottles. I have a WL Weller 12 bourbon that's so hard to get these days that I even use it on it.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So what drives that price so high for some older scotches? The year it was produced what just an exceptional tasting scotch, and nothing to do with the actual age of the scotch, except for the increasing rarity as time goes on.

The age of a scotch represents the number of years between when it was distilled and when it was bottled. So an 18yo scotch spent 18 years in the barrel before being bottled. If it's a blend, then that 18yo would represent the age of the youngest scotch in the blend at time of bottling, but there could have been ones that spent even more time in barrel.

That number of years just spend sitting in a barrel makes well-aged scotch a long investment for the producer. Imagine making a product and then just having sit there literally for decades before you can sell it. That's basically what leads to the higher costs.

[Fuzz]

It's not just the time, they also lose a significant amount to evaporation when barrelled, known as "the angel's share". This is about 1.5-2% per year. It adds up, the longer you age it you get less product.

[Travis Munroe]

As Fuzz mentions above, I did the Glenfiddich distillery tour just outside of Aberdeen and the angels share was one of the most interesting things to me. At the end of the tour you end up in the warehouse which has casks galore including many which are older than the oldest scotch they have released. The older the cask, the less scotch inside due to evaporation (or the fancy term they use).
This is why old isn't always good but it took longer to make and less final product becomes available to sell.

[Travis Munroe]

One other interesting bit from that tour.... around 2010 they had a snow storm which caved in the roof. After having someone review the casks, they could not technically sell them as what they were initially going to (snow/water on the outside of the cask for too long that could have mixed with the whisky inside or something along those lines). So instead of throwing it out, they created a limited edition "Snow Phoenix" which went on to become a huge hit...upwards of $1,000 usd for a bottle.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's not just the time, they also lose a significant amount to evaporation when barrelled, known as "the angel's share". This is about 1.5-2% per year. It adds up, the longer you age it you get less product.

The angel's share isn't the biggest determining factor of higher prices for aged scotch. Even with a 40yo scotch the volume is only being reduced by around half, which would justify a doubling of price over a 2yo scotch if it were really about the volume. In reality, you can see much more than just doubling of price over a 2yo whisky. Even from a 12yo to a 40yo you might see twenty times increase in price. That's certainly not justified by the angel's share.

The length of investment while still having operating costs for a distillery provide a disincentive to age for such long periods, which makes these more rare and makes the branding and extreme price points work out. It's fair to say that scarcity helps to drive the price, but that scarcity is much more a factor of the risk, length and cost of investment than it is of the angel's share.

[Fuzz]

Well ya, it's not everything, but it adds up. by only getting half the volume by year 35, you have lost a lot of storage costs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well ya, it's not everything, but it adds up. by only getting half the volume by year 35, you have lost a lot of storage costs.

Thats why they're all based in Scotland. Lots of nuthin'! You can store barrels anywhere....as long as they're locked up.

Scots are untrustworthy.

[Red]

Reading this thread made me craving for a drink. Macallan 12 to the rescue. Not my favorite, but someone has to drink it. Costco no longer has the 15 so it will have to do. What a shame. I only have a half a bottle left.

Want to share with you that the new HP 12 is terrible. It's Viking Honour or something, just pure sugar and no finish. Not even comparable to the original 12. I ended up mixing it with Glanmorange 10, at least it tasted like a scotch.

Any sales? I keep looking and nothing other that 'livet 12 for ~38-40. Would like to get some 'livet 18 and HP18.

Not a scotch, but the XO Cognac from Kirkland is fantastic. If you like brandy you will love this one. Only $75 for an XO too so pretty reasonable.

[Wormius]

Who is Kirkland’s cognac from? I love cognac but have always been a bit hesitant to splurge for a > $200 bottle of Hennessy or Remy Martin.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Who is Kirkland’s cognac from? I love cognac but have always been a bit hesitant to splurge for a > $200 bottle of Hennessy or Remy Martin.

It's a Peyrat XO.

https://www.cognacinfo.com/en/flase/...peyrat-xo.html


Same bottle just different label.

http://www.tastings.com/Spirits-Revi...2-01-2016.aspx

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Red

Reading this thread made me craving for a drink. Macallan 12 to the rescue. Not my favorite, but someone has to drink it. Costco no longer has the 15 so it will have to do. What a shame. I only have a half a bottle left.

Want to share with you that the new HP 12 is terrible. It's Viking Honour or something, just pure sugar and no finish. Not even comparable to the original 12. I ended up mixing it with Glanmorange 10, at least it tasted like a scotch.

Any sales? I keep looking and nothing other that 'livet 12 for ~38-40. Would like to get some 'livet 18 and HP18.

Not a scotch, but the XO Cognac from Kirkland is fantastic. If you like brandy you will love this one. Only $75 for an XO too so pretty reasonable.

Macallan 12 was my introduction to scotch, just really well balanced. In recent years due to demand, Macallan stopped production of the Sherry wood years, and switched to the colour system (Gold, Ruby Senna..). Only recently I think did they go back to the 12, 15, 18... Sherry casks. Not sure how the 12 now compares with the ones before.

[MRCboicgy]

It's not scotch, but Nikka From the Barrel whisky is regularly at KWM or Crowfoot, and quite frankly is my go-to.