The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I have a hard time with thinking Sam needed more time to develop to the league. He had a stronger rookie season than Monahan did.

…that 2nd year though.

To me this is all just the perfect end to an era for the Flames. 7 years of futility and mismanagement topped off by trading the highest pick in the organization’s history for spare parts, only for him to pop off elsewhere.

As a fan, I can’t move on from this era fast enough. I really do hope it ends and Treliving is fired at the conclusion of the season.

Yeah it’s time for a fresh start. A new GM won’t come in and clean house but I’ll take a different approach over some short term moves to compete next season.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don’t know about all the success stories really. Of course this club has developed some good players but it’s time for some honesty about the quality of the players here. The good is not outweighing the bad unfortunately.

Anytime you can get a 2nd/3rd line winger out of a 6th round pick, it's a homerun: Mangiapane.

Gaudreau was a 4th round pick and is an elite player in the NHL. That's a win.

Tkachuk became an impact player in his first year. That's a win.

Andersson, a 2nd round pick, has seamlessly moved into a top 4 role. That's a win.

Ferland was drafted in the 5th round and became a top line player for a year that we moved in a good value deal. That's a win.

Rittich developed into a 1B goalie that had an all-star appearance. He was an undrafted European free agent. That's a win.



Now, that being said. I also think Kylington has been mishandled the same way Bennett has. We shall see how that turns out long term.

I'd say that it's about a 75% success ratio compared to expectations with players in the system. I think it could be a lot better, but I also don't believe the Flames are horrible at development either.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The problems started the first season with Gulutzan.

The duos should have been Gaudreau-Monahan, Tkachuk-Bennett, Backlund-Frolik. That’s where it should have been, always.

Instead they did what they did, and we are where we are. We allowed Monahan to develop into the liability he is through years of bad coaches that allowed bad-habits to form, we crushed Bennett’s confidence, and relied on Backlund to fill a role he just doesn’t have the offensive skill to fill. These decisions delivered the results that we’ve gotten and that we’ve deserved.

Really it’s all in the past, but I just don’t buy arguments that he shouldn’t have played ahead of Backlund, or at the very least have gotten Tkachuk on his wing. This team did not have the amount of success to justify not investing in Bennett as a top-6 centre. They rushed Bennett to the NHL and then refused to develop him at the NHL level competently.

To Bennett’s credit, he did a decent job finding ways to contribute while getting kicked around the lineup. He’d always stand up for his teammates, and he was great in the playoffs.

Florida will benefit from the Flames’ incompetence.

On the contrary friend, Gulutzan started Sam Bennett and Matthew Tkachuk together on day 1, right from the get go and here’s your proof below. I know people have an axe to grind on seemingly every coach minus Darryl, but I don’t think it was ever the coach’s fault. Gulutzan actually did try out 19 and 93 together.


Game 1 & Game 2 of the 2016-2017 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNhxPiPcWs&t=3306s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BV9pH50VD8&t=1183s

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

On the contrary friend, Gulutzan started Sam Bennett and Matthew Tkachuk together on day 1, right from the get go and here’s your proof below. I know people have an axe to grind on seemingly every coach minus Darryl, but I don’t think it was ever the coach’s fault. Gulutzan actually did try out 19 and 93 together.


Game 1 & Game 2 of the 2016-2017 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNhxPiPcWs&t=3306s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BV9pH50VD8&t=1183s

So 2 games...

Really stuck with it

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

On the contrary friend, Gulutzan started Sam Bennett and Matthew Tkachuk together on day 1, right from the get go and here’s your proof below. I know people have an axe to grind on seemingly every coach minus Darryl, but I don’t think it was ever the coach’s fault. Gulutzan actually did try out 19 and 93 together.


Game 1 & Game 2 of the 2016-2017 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNhxPiPcWs&t=3306s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BV9pH50VD8&t=1183s

Well, okay sure…they played like 4% of their even strength time together…

Tkachuk 16/17

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah it’s time for a fresh start. A new GM won’t come in and clean house but I’ll take a different approach over some short term moves to compete next season.

I think a perfect time for a new GM to come in is at the start of a tear down. Zero expectations. Rip it down, and suck for two seasons.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

On the contrary friend, Gulutzan started Sam Bennett and Matthew Tkachuk together on day 1, right from the get go and here’s your proof below. I know people have an axe to grind on seemingly every coach minus Darryl, but I don’t think it was ever the coach’s fault. Gulutzan actually did try out 19 and 93 together.


Game 1 & Game 2 of the 2016-2017 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNhxPiPcWs&t=3306s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BV9pH50VD8&t=1183s

You realize the RW on that line was Troy Brouwer right?

It was Bennett with two glacially slow wingers. Just horrible line construction.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

The Flames lost Jean-Sebastien Giguere and St.Louis both right after the transition from Coates to Button. I believe Coates believed in both, Button had different ideas.
Man, looking back, with Button at the helm, we lost St. Louis, Marc Savard, and Jean-Sebastien Giguere, all for nothing.

And he was really close to trading Iginla for Mike Peca, as well, IIRC.

[DJones]

Ya Bennett has played with pretty much everyone over the years.

Just was never with anyone good for more than like 10 games. Took Monahan like 20 games of not being able to skate until they demoted him to the third line one year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Well, okay sure…they played like 4% of their even strength time together…

[URL="https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?select=F&forward=CGY%3A42 76%3AMATTHEW%3ATKACHUK&games=2016-2017%3AR%3A99&period=ALL&situation=EV"]Tkachuk


I think a perfect time for a new GM to come in is at the start of a tear down. Zero expectations. Rip it down, and suck for two seasons.

Clearly he did not do enough with his 4% of the timenwith Tkachuk

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

So 2 games...

Really stuck with it

Ok how about 3?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOmEpA2S9iM&t=849s

I’m sure there’s more, but these are all I could find. So If someone else can find some, by all means. The main point though is Gulutzan did try it out, so I think the “he didn’t play him with Tkachuk” narrative can stop.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Ok how about 3?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOmEpA2S9iM&t=849s

I’m sure there’s more, but these are all I could find. So If someone else can find some, by all means. The main point though is Gulutzan did try it out, so I think the “he didn’t play him with Tkachuk” narrative can stop.

He played slightly more than 4 percent of the year with Tkachuk. So you can maybe fine one more game where they played part of the game together. 3 and a half games is a pretty good run.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Well, okay sure…they played like 4% of their even strength time together…

Tkachuk 16/17



I think a perfect time for a new GM to come in is at the start of a tear down. Zero expectations. Rip it down, and suck for two seasons.

Well, when that line isn’t really generating anything or finding much chemistry, they’re probably going to get broken up eventually.

Also, Tkachuk ended up with Backlund that season and they absolutely dominated together. There really was no reason to go away from that was there? Especially since the 3M line was the team’s MVP that season.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Ok how about 3?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOmEpA2S9iM&t=849s

I’m sure there’s more, but these are all I could find. So If someone else can find some, by all means. The main point though is Gulutzan did try it out, so I think the “he didn’t play him with Tkachuk” narrative can stop.

Can we amend that to

"Didn't play him with Tkachuk and a competent RW who isn't a leadfooted possession black hole"

Ya know, like:

Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg
Tkachuk-Bennett-Frolik
Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

Instead, Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer was Gulutzan's answer... as Gulutzan's "player pair" was Bennett-Brouwer and rookie Tkachuk was the third guy, a rookie still trying to convince the team to burn an ELC year on him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You realize the RW on that line was Troy Brouwer right?

It was Bennett with two glacially slow wingers. Just horrible line construction.

Uh yes, I do realize that actually, it wasn’t my call to go after Troy Brouwer though. I’m just simply pointing out that any talk of Sam Bennett not getting time with Matthew Tkachuk is straight up false.

Obviously it’s easy to sit here and blame all the coaches and all the other players for Sam Bennett’s struggles here, but the player has some responsibility to bear as well. Not saying it’s all on Bennett here, obviously Treliving didn’t make wise decisions with some of his player selections, but it probably was 50/50 or at worst 60/40 in terms of who was liable.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Duclair was another guy that Calgary should have picked up...

he was risky, but the flames seriously needed talent this offseason...

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The Lightning are the defending champs and retained their core.

The Flames lost their best playoff performer and haven't had much playoff success.

Not the same.




Duclair is a winger.

Bennett is a center.


Top two line centers don't grow on trees. You gotta draft them VERY high 99% of the time. Skilled wingers are a lot easier to acquire.

You cannot defend the Flames' usage of Sam Bennett. SIX years he was a Flame and never got a stretch of legitimate opportunity that his talent level demanded. The Flames blatantly screwed the pooch on what might have been their most valuable asset.

Disagree.

Take a look at each teams top C. Drafting them very high is more like 40-50% of the time. Granted, some teams have two C’s drafted very high that would be considered elite, Draisaitl & Malkin for example.

Bergeron was a second round pick, so was Aho. Point was a third. ROR was acquired through a trade and was a second round pick prior to. Getzlaf was 19th OA, Kopitar 11th. Larkin was 17th. Zibinejad acquired through trade. Giroux 28th OA....you don’t need a top 3 pick to find a 1C. A lot of it has to do with trying to predict how an 18 year old is going to develop. It’s not an exact science.

Plenty of legitimate 1C’s picked outside of the top 5.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well, when that line isn’t really generating anything or finding much chemistry, they’re probably going to get broken up eventually.

Also, Tkachuk ended up with Backlund that season and they absolutely dominated together. There really was no reason to go away from that was there? Especially since the 3M line was the team’s MVP that season.

My point is that the lines they went with won them nothing.

This team defaulted to the lines they did and won nothing. Why did they keep trying? Why didn’t they try and develop better lines?

Stupid short term thinking that didn’t help them win in the short term or the long term.

[AC]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Duclair was another guy that Calgary should have picked up...

he was risky, but the flames seriously needed talent this offseason...

If only Calgary was more enticing to a free agent than Florida.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Anytime you can get a 2nd/3rd line winger out of a 6th round pick, it's a homerun: Mangiapane.

Gaudreau was a 4th round pick and is an elite player in the NHL. That's a win.

Tkachuk became an impact player in his first year. That's a win.

Andersson, a 2nd round pick, has seamlessly moved into a top 4 role. That's a win.

Ferland was drafted in the 5th round and became a top line player for a year that we moved in a good value deal. That's a win.

Rittich developed into a 1B goalie that had an all-star appearance. He was an undrafted European free agent. That's a win.



Now, that being said. I also think Kylington has been mishandled the same way Bennett has. We shall see how that turns out long term.

I'd say that it's about a 75% success ratio compared to expectations with players in the system. I think it could be a lot better, but I also don't believe the Flames are horrible at development either.

75% success rate? Only because of who you chose to include. They have had draft picks other than the players you mentioned.

The team is what it is. Bennett failing here is not some crazy exception.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

He played slightly more than 4 percent of the year with Tkachuk. So you can maybe fine one more game where they played part of the game together. 3 and a half games is a pretty good run.

Yes, 3 to 4 games is plenty. Heck, all I needed was 2 exhibition games to realize James Neal was going to be a failure here, or a couple rookie tournament games to see how good Mangiapane was going to be or 1 period to know Gaudreau was going to be a ppg player. 1 game still contains 20+ shifts and I think a lot can be gleaned off even just 1 game. It’s actually funny, that third link I provided is the exact game I watched after the Chris Tanev signing to see how good he was.

So if I can tell off 1 game or 2, imagine what an NHL coach or an NHL scout can learn.