[PGT] Flames lose to Toronto again, 4-3

[dissentowner]

Why is anyone surprised at Backlund's play to start the year? This is every season. He plays half the year like a 4th liner and the other half like a 1st line C.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Itse

... is it just me or is CP even more bipolar than usual this season?

I think it steadily gets worse every year. But this past year, things have gotten significantly crazier. I don't know if people are closer to the edge because of Covid, or what, but this board is completely bipolar these days. Also, way more aggressive and nasty.

It's a shame. I want to talk hockey and this is where I come to do it, but the trolling, the bickering, the people hammering the same agendas over and over, it's ####ing exhausting.

[Enoch Root]

Gaudreau and Monahan have been really good this year.

Lindholm and Tkachuk have been anointed as the first line, but they haven't been as effective or as consistent. Mangiapane is working hard, but has been ineffective. Someone said they think he is trying to do too much - I agree with that.

None of the new players have found a role to fit into yet, but it is early.

Lucic is costing us games.

Hanifin has quietly stepped up his game. He and Tanev are fantastic together.

However, I am not a huge fan of Gio and Andersson together. I still think Gio-Tanev and Hanifin-Andersson is the way to go. But let's give it time.

Valimaki had a tough game last night but some people need to relax, he'll be fine. I do not think you pull him out of the lineup for one bad game, you tell him to forget it and go play.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it steadily gets worse every year. But this past year, things have gotten significantly crazier. I don't know if people are closer to the edge because of Covid, or what, but this board is completely bipolar these days. Also, way more aggressive and nasty.

It's a shame. I want to talk hockey and this is where I come to do it, but the trolling, the bickering, the people hammering the same agendas over and over, it's ####ing exhausting.

My new years resolution was to go 1 full month without making any CP posts that were focused on other posters or their posts. My goal was to only post my own opinions without any reference to what other people thought. Quoting permitted but only to agree with OP.

I don't think I lasted 15 minutes. I blame COVID. I feel like a live ape with a surly disposition. Or a caged baboon. Or both.

[Enoch Root]

I don't know what to think of the system they are playing. When it is working, they look like world beaters. But when it isn't, they are standing still and are beyond ineffective. Feast or famine. Really frustrating.

And Ward makes too many mistakes with line matching IMO.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by heep223

I thought the Flames were the better team after the first period. Markstrom probably should have had that 4th backbreaking goal though he’s been great so we let that slide.

My biggest concern was the lack of urgency on the late PP along with some coaching decisions.

Bennett is back to being my whipping boy...he hurts this team way more than helps. What’s the opposite of “the puck follows a player around”? He’s got a magnet in his stick, but it’s flipped the wrong way so that it pushes the puck away. Can’t take a pass, can’t make a pass, shoots when he should pass, passes when he should shoot, turns the puck over almost every time he gets it, never wins 50/50 battles.

This loss is not on Bennett but honestly he needs to be sat or moved. He is terrible.

On the other hand Hanifin has looked fantastic, imo he’s been out best d man.

You have it all wrong on Bennett, man. I am hoping the Flames sign him to an 8 year extension, 2 million per. Full no move. That way we can spend the remaining years of his career debating playoff Sam Bennett vs. Regular Season Sam Bennett. Can't wait.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

My new years resolution was to go 1 full month without making any CP posts that were focused on other posters or their posts. My goal was to only post my own opinions without any reference to what other people thought. Quoting permitted but only to agree with OP.

I don't think I lasted 15 minutes.

I remind myself to do this as well. But yeah, 15 minutes and you get sucked right back into it.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by heep223

Agreed re Tkachuk. Laughing at Muzzin and casually leaving the ice would have been a better move.

Yeah. While doing the ‘pretend to scratch your forehead with your middle finger’ thing. That would have been perfect.

[zukes]

Let's say that the 4th goal doesn't go in and the Flames win, either in regulation, or in OT. This thread would be about how resilient this team is, how they never give up. Yes there would be complaints about the first period, but that would be about it.

I actually thought that once Lucic was moved up to the third line and Leivo dropped down, both lines improved significantly.

Two games and the Flames won probably 4 of 6 periods, lost one and tied one? Maybe even 5 of 6 periods, yet lost both games. Stop with the panic!

[blender]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it steadily gets worse every year. But this past year, things have gotten significantly crazier. I don't know if people are closer to the edge because of Covid, or what, but this board is completely bipolar these days. Also, way more aggressive and nasty.

It's a shame. I want to talk hockey and this is where I come to do it, but the trolling, the bickering, the people hammering the same agendas over and over, it's ####ing exhausting.

The thing that gets me is the binary absolutism.
If the Flames are winning, they are great and the other team sucks. If the Flames are losing, they suck. The other team is never good.
I think the majority of people would agree that this is a fallacy, but you wouldn't know it if you read the threads about the game.
The ATL report was a lot more fun for me when it didn't look so familiar!

[Red]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it steadily gets worse every year. But this past year, things have gotten significantly crazier. I don't know if people are closer to the edge because of Covid, or what, but this board is completely bipolar these days. Also, way more aggressive and nasty.

It's a shame. I want to talk hockey and this is where I come to do it, but the trolling, the bickering, the people hammering the same agendas over and over, it's ####ing exhausting.

Hockey for most part is highs and lows. Discuss only highs? Nah. Boring.

As for the last few years, I agree, but lets just look at what we were put through.

A team comes out of a rebuild with huge promise, Chucky, Monahan and Johnny plus some great D.

To take the team to the next level they hire Gulutzan. Worst coach in team history. Unwatchable, boring, repetitive hockey with no success.
Then they follow up with Peters. A bargain bin buy again, guy with no previous success. For some reason the team explodes, great 3/4 of the season. All good right?
They follow up by terrible last quarter and even worse playoffs. Top players invisible again. A trend by then.
Then they don't change the core. Going in with the same underperforming players. Have a crappy season, probably weren't making the playoffs in regular circumstances. But win against a badly injured Jets. Get knocked out first round again. Same players underperforming.
And then we go to the next season with the same group of top line players. And hired another inexpensive coach.
Play a great first period to start the season and follow up with crap.
Few games in and the team has played some of the worst hockey we have seen. Wins against Vancouver are nice, sure, but where is the consistency?

It really is exhausting.

[calumniate]

lots of bouncing pucks early on but they settled in ok.

I thought the flames defensive coverage was the worst of the season. So many odd-man rushes and golden opportunities in the slot. Could have been way worse!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Red

Hockey for most part is highs and lows. Discuss only highs? Nah. Boring.

As for the last few years, I agree, but lets just look at what we were put through.

A team comes out of a rebuild with huge promise, Chucky, Monahan and Johnny plus some great D.

To take the team to the next level they hire Gulutzan. Worst coach in team history. Unwatchable, boring, repetitive hockey with no success.
Then they follow up with Peters. A bargain bin buy again, guy with no previous success. For some reason the team explodes, great 3/4 of the season. All good right?
They follow up by terrible last quarter and even worse playoffs. Top players invisible again. A trend by then.
Then they don't change the core. Going in with the same underperforming players. Have a crappy season, probably weren't making the playoffs in regular circumstances. But win against a badly injured Jets. Get knocked out first round again. Same players underperforming.
And then we go to the next season with the same group of top line players. And hired another inexpensive coach.
Play a great first period to start the season and follow up with crap.
Few games in and the team has played some of the worst hockey we have seen. Wins against Vancouver are nice, sure, but where is the consistency?

It really is exhausting.

I never suggested only discussing the highs. Obviously, good and productive discussion goes both ways.

But that doesn't require bipolar absurdity, and large doses of vitriol.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think it steadily gets worse every year. But this past year, things have gotten significantly crazier. I don't know if people are closer to the edge because of Covid, or what, but this board is completely bipolar these days. Also, way more aggressive and nasty.

It's a shame. I want to talk hockey and this is where I come to do it, but the trolling, the bickering, the people hammering the same agendas over and over, it's ####ing exhausting.

We should start a discord!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Gaudreau and Monahan have been really good this year.

Lindholm and Tkachuk have been anointed as the first line, but they haven't been as effective or as consistent. Mangiapane is working hard, but has been ineffective. Someone said they think he is trying to do too much - I agree with that.

None of the new players have found a role to fit into yet, but it is early.

Lucic is costing us games.

Hanifin has quietly stepped up his game. He and Tanev are fantastic together.

However, I am not a huge fan of Gio and Andersson together. I still think Gio-Tanev and Hanifin-Andersson is the way to go. But let's give it time.

Valimaki had a tough game last night but some people need to relax, he'll be fine. I do not think you pull him out of the lineup for one bad game, you tell him to forget it and go play.

Really agree with a lot of this. It's funny, given the bolded, you'd have expected the Flames to be on easy street but just not getting enough from the rest of the lineup yet.

After five games, the team probably deserves a slightly better record than they have. I expect Backlund and Mangiapane to begin to produce a little as they are good players. Then the so called depth with Lucic, Bennett, Ryan, Leivo, Simon and Nordstrom just needs to start holding their own.

I'm pretty happy with how the D has played.

And Markstrom has been fine.

[Jeff Lebowski]

IMO the team has a great style of play. I like Ward's approach obviously when things are clicking the puck support, the short passes, the zone entries etc. The puck moves fast. Opponents are very good in the NHL so it isn't going to be dominant all the time.

The only concern is the period to period (and last game after tying up in third, within period) changes in play. I would like to see them stick to their game no matter what - there will be ebbs and flows but stick to the fundamentals of their team play: structure, puck support, relentlessness etc. They know what it looks like. Each guy has to commit.

They are really talented and skilled but the effort has to be there first, the will. Establish that - that is the key to focus on, their will and all else will flow from that. Those short passes lead to rhythm, that rhythm leads to timing and timing leads to execution. You get confidence from that. Confidence plus rhythm is swagger.

But don't get too ahead of it. Effort and will is the straw that stirs the drink. And yes it is all a process. To win games you need to do certain things (how they play) but all of those things need to be animated by effort and will. Early in games play simple, fast, direct hockey and get those shots on net - CGY gets established skating downhill from that. Establish the check to score mentality early, that Ward preaches.

[Huntsy]

Backlund and Ryan terrible. No enthusiasm at all. Monahan same way. The guy never shows any emotion. They need a coach that makes them accountable..Johnnny seemed to be skating..Love the defense although Valimaki is not the player media has made him out to be. Similar to Bennett. Bennett should have been gone long ago. They are still in it but need some players to be accountable. If not time on the pine..

[tvp2003]

As a follow-up to the Valimaki/Nesterov discussion:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1354465995059060737

They’ve been pretty good but they’re still the third pairing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I didn't watch the game, so my opinion is informed only by highlights. But I was pleased o see Johnny continuing to shoot more. I found last season he became such a pass first guy that teams didn't really have to worry about him shooting. Overall, I think his play this year has been better than last year, and seems to be improving as the team finds its legs (again no pre-season games, only 5 games on the sched so far).

People need to be patient with Valimaki. I get that some felt, based on his play in Europe, that he would step in and be an impact player right away. That's just not going to happen - he has missed GOBS of time in the last year. But you see the raw tools. Overall i still feel very optimistic about the future of the blueline: Hanifin seems to be taking a step and then Andersson, Valimaki form an excellent nucleus for the long-term. I've been impressed with Nesterov. Has stepped right in.

Markstrom has been as advertised and continues to make this team more dangerous. On most nights last year, the Flames did not have the best goalie on the ice. So that meant their other best players had to be that much better. And I don't think our best players consistently can do that against other teams. So Markstrom is the x-factor that they didn't have last year. On most nights, he gives them an edge in goal.

So despite another so-so start - I actually feel better about this team this year than last year.

Do i think they are a cup contender? Probably not. They'd have to have a lot go right for that - and specifically Markstrom would need to have a Kipper-esque playoff.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

IMO the team has a great style of play. I like Ward's approach obviously when things are clicking the puck support, the short passes, the zone entries etc. The puck moves fast. Opponents are very good in the NHL so it isn't going to be dominant all the time.

The only concern is the period to period (and last game after tying up in third, within period) changes in play. I would like to see them stick to their game no matter what - there will be ebbs and flows but stick to the fundamentals of their team play: structure, puck support, relentlessness etc. They know what it looks like. Each guy has to commit.

They are really talented and skilled but the effort has to be there first, the will. Establish that - that is the key to focus on, their will and all else will flow from that. Those short passes lead to rhythm, that rhythm leads to timing and timing leads to execution. You get confidence from that. Confidence plus rhythm is swagger.

But don't get too ahead of it. Effort and will is the straw that stirs the drink. And yes it is all a process. To win games you need to do certain things (how they play) but all of those things need to be animated by effort and will. Early in games play simple, fast, direct hockey and get those shots on net - CGY gets established skating downhill from that. Establish the check to score mentality early, that Ward preaches.

I believe that they are. IMO, it isn't that they are changing the way they play so much as the way they play results in wildly inconsistent results.

The short passes are great when they are tape to tape. And it results in good transition. But when they aren't, everyone has to stop. And the play usually ends up going the other direction.