Matheson does his best "WWE" slam on Pettersson - Update: 2 game suspension

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

I don't see anything wrong with that hit. however you should learn after getting rocked. Kid comes across the Blueline with his head down. This isnt non contact hockey. If one wants to play with their head down whilst trying to dangle everyone, don't play full contact hockey.

You have to be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially when you have the puck.

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?
Why does he need to destroy the kid?
The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?
Why does he need to destroy the kid?
The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

That ones tough. Both players are coming with speed and the offensive player does have the puck coming into the middle of the zone.

It’s not a dirty hit but more just a problem of how big, strong, and fast players are today even at the NCAA level.

I’m honestly not sure how you ban that hit without banning hitting all together...I’m not sure you can say it’s illegal just because the hit is “harder” than it needed to be, because at that point how do you draw that line.

[bluck]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?
Why does he need to destroy the kid?
The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

I personally see nothing wrong with that hit. It was legal check, shoulder down, and was not high. Is it unfortunate that the kid got rocked? Absolutely. Will he "keep his head up" and not skate around stink handling blindly in the future... I'm pretty sure he will. Do I like seeing a kid, lying down on the ice cold? No.. I really don't. It is unfortunate that incidents like this happen, but it is part of the game. Hockey is and will always be a contact sport. Now compare it to the Tom Wilson hit and that is a completely different story. One where the player targeted the other players head on purpose. That has no business in the game.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?

Why does any hit need to be thrown? I'm not asking facetiously, or to be an a**. I'd seriously like to know what you consider to be a hit that needs to be thrown.

But to answer your question, in this case, you have an offensive player entering a good scoring area, and he needs to be seperated from the puck

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why does he need to destroy the kid?

The kid is skating full on with his head down from his own blueline to 5 feet inside the opposition blueline. If he hits anything, including a perfectly stationary abject, he's going to get destroyed. Just looks at outfielders who lose track of their position and run into a wall. They go down hard, even if it's padded, because they fail to brace themselves.

What you're in essence advocating is that any player skating with speed and is unaware of his surroundings is off limits to a body check, because it will inevitably destroy him.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

Basically, see above. If any player is skating with speed and unaware of his surroundings, he's off limits to anything but a stick-check, because otherwise there's a risk of injury. No, I hate seeing injuries, I don't think hockey works if defensive players become responsible for offensive players well being if the offensive players choose to ignore their own safety.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Yeah, my question on that one is, what about the hit do you object to? That it was too hard? We can't see from that replay if it was charging, but that aside, I'm not sure what he did that should be illegal. It seems impossible to draw a line as to how much force can be delivered in an otherwise legal hit.

[Poe969]

Well instead of hitting him, he could have just grabbed him and explained that he could have hit him but he thinks it is too violent and that hitting should phased out. He was going.g to but the he realized that he's a big defender who's best asset is his ability to play a physical game and if hitting is phased out, he likely isn't going to progress in his hockey career so he just hit him.

[Itse]

That's not an easy hit to make rules about, but I do think a player should try to avoid hitting someone with their head down quite that hard. And I do mean try to avoid doing that, not "should burn in he'll if that happens anyway".

I do think there's a level of personal responsibility to avoid causing concussions. It's a game, it's not worth anyone's health.

But at the same time, it's a fast, physical competitive game. There is some truth that you will eventually get rocked if you're reckless. By accident if not intentionally.

EDIT: this post on reference to this hit

Originally Posted by Yoho

More food for thought.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1052370284760641536

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Itse

But at the same time, it's a fast, physical competitive game. There is some truth that you will eventually get rocked if you're reckless. By accident if not intentionally.

It’s the same as why they teach you to “drive defensively”. It’s a dangerous activity and an incident can result in serious harm. Of course it isn’t automatically your fault if you’re in an accident, but it’s fair to assume that you should look out for your own well being. Be aware and make efforts to avoid injury to yourself, even if it isn’t your fault.

Hockey is dangerous. There will never be a time when it isn’t. Even if there is no contact, it can be dangerous. The league will look out for player safety but you really should take responsibility for yourself before anyone else does. For your own health.

[Royle9]

I haven't had a chance to scroll through all 18+ pages yet but will weigh in with my thoughts:

1 - The Gudbransson hit on Dube was and still is more vicious and dangerous then this hit on a Petterson.

2 - The outcomes are different and that's the only real reason people are even talking about the Petterson hit, is because unfortunately the kid was concussed on the play.

Exhibit A - Blindside targeted head shot on a player without the puck, away from the play. 2 minute "interference" penalty and not a PEEP from the announcers as it happened, in fact they called it a "Welcome to the NHL kid" live on TV. Nothing from Flames coach in the media crying about how gutless and disgusting it was.

Coincidentally enough, no peep from Vancouver head coach either on what could have ended Dube's career before it even started. I would wager if this hit Dube took was on Petterson by a Giordano or Bennett he'd be out long term as well and we would have had suspensions thrown out.

Exhibit B - A legal hit on a player who had the puck in the corner, however the player in this case did follow through with a shove after the hit to the ice similar to what we'd see former flame Regehr over the years without incident. Was the extra shove required? No you can argue that is what could have been avoided, but I firmly believe there was 0 intent to concuss the kid, but because he's touted as the next Gretzky, Sakic etc its all over the media and a suspension was handed out.

Unfortunate, but not nearly as malicious as the hit thrown on Dube by the same team who wouldn't recognize the dirtiness of it in the media. I hate to see a young kid get injured but I cant begin to fathom the bull#### I'm seeing on this all based on WHO was hit, not what the hit was in the first place.

Typical.

[SixtySix]

If you opt to dangle 2 guys you better be Mario Lemieux or else you're probably gonna get laid out. Especially if you cut across the ice with your head down. That's hockey. As a defenseman you never want to see someone not get up but of course you're going to make the hit. It was clean and should have been easy to see coming. If you're against it, you're against hitting in general. It's an unfortunate result to a textbook hockey play. Sometimes bad things will happen in a fast and physical game, if you ban everything that could possibly lead to injury you don't have hockey anymore.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

So you linked to Luke Richardson (an enforcer) getting slashed in the head by Dino Ciccarelli - where is the star player?

Roenick taking a legal hit that was high and within the rules at the time oh and it's in the 90's

Bossy taking a borderline dirty hit that was likely acceptable back then but now would be suspendable.

Gretzky taking a clean and legal at the time and probably now hockey hit.

How do they have any relevance to what I said? Do you have a link to Tim Hunter body slamming Gretzky to the ice and causing a concussion? Or Jim Peplinski with a flying elbow on Gretzky?

Hockey is a physical sport, I never said it wasn't. I never said it wasn't dirty in the 80's. Read what I wrote.

I read what you wrote. You didn't limit it to "star players" (but there were few stars bigger than Bossy and there's no question that was dirty even then). You said that this stuff didn't occur because of fear of reprisal/respect etc.

No doubt there were reprisals (though I didn't see any on Bossy). But the point is that they didn't stop dirty play - it was more prevalent if anything. Was Hunter worried about reprisals when he crosschecked Turgeon from behind well after the play had ended and Turgeon was celebrating a goal?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Unfortunate, but not nearly as malicious as the hit thrown on Dube by the same team who wouldn't recognize the dirtiness of it in the media. I hate to see a young kid get injured but I cant begin to fathom the bull#### I'm seeing on this all based on WHO was hit, not what the hit was in the first place.

I think most would agree it's unfair and dumb that who hits who has such an effect on what hits get talked about. That said, I doubt it affects people's opinions much, it's just that they pay more attention when stars are involved.

It's also reminiscent of how actual laws change. Quite often it takes a high-profile case or few to get the attention needed to change anything, or to have a necessary discussion. I don't think it's a particularly great system, but it's very human and I don't think it will ever change.

[redforever]

There are two parts to that hit.

The first is perfectly fine, well within NHL rules.

The second part, where he shoves him to the ice like a rag doll, and Petterson's head hits the ice hard, is dirty and totally unnecessary.

[Split98]

I've used luge as an example I find pretty funny for this as I firmly believe that I can get to the bottom, and have a blast doing it. I should, however, train to make sure I'm not going to get hurt.

It's the same with football, racing, horses, and hockey. I think there's a lot of responsibility you're accepting when you engage in these sports as there's a definite risk to the profession you've chosen. There's also a responsibility to ensure you are prepared to play.

I think the rules of the game need to ensure the players have an opportunity to play safe, however. You shouldn't be ragdolled to the ice from the dasher, that's a penalty. However, coming across the blueline you're an open target. We saw it with Johnny and those stupid PP entries that never worked and Johnny was going to get killed. I remember 3 huge hits in 2 games that I thought he'd need some time to recover from. Outside of those stupid kamikaze entries, Johnny rarely gets hit and he understands that he's at a physical disadvantage. So, to make the NHL he's trained on the aspects of his game that would ensure he can survive.

From that, I don't think that blueline hit is anything that needs to come out of the game. I'd love to never see someone on the ice like that, but there is a danger to this game. Coming across the blue line through traffic, you have to know you're a target out there. You hope you're playing against a team that isn't going to intentionally hurt you - but you know that a hit is an effective play in this moment. If the player isn't charging, isn't targeting the head and isn't leaving his feet it's a legal hit you should learn to avoid. If avoiding or absorbing those impacts isn't something you're capable of doing - then playing at hockey's highest level isn't for you.

But that hit is a big part of the game. A player aware of the competition on the ice, is physically trained to absorb a hit and has trained in recognizing the defensive move is a really fun game to watch. It wasn't fun when we lined up Johnny for the slaughter, so I'm happy to see a change. But I also see a lot of players dangle into the offensive zone assuming that they're not going to get hit - then I also see the defence doing a terrible job not hitting and taking control of the puck. Will a clean hit to a prepared player occasionally result in an injury? Of course. Paraphrase hockey to me in a way that makes it seem safe, and I think you have to ignore almost every aspect of it.

Make sure punishments are consistent, and impactful and ensure that your players are trained to play the game safely - on both sides of the hit.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by redforever

There are two parts to that hit.

The first is perfectly fine, well within NHL rules.

The second part, where he shoves him to the ice like a rag doll, and Petterson's head hits the ice hard, is dirty and totally unnecessary.

I don't see a second part, he simply followed through on the hit.

Also, if you watch the ref, he was very close, saw the whole thing and began looking up the ice after the hit. It does not appear to even enter his mind that this could be a penalty, you never see any arm movement or even a long look that a ref usually takes. He seems surprised that the Canuck player was even hurt as the play moves up.

To me, this is what happens when an NHL player checks someone who has the body of a tall and skinny bantam sized player encountering body checks for the first time.

By the way, that headline mentioning WWE is way off base and sounds a lot like Dana White style false outrage.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I don't see a second part, he simply followed through on the hit.

That's not a follow through on a hit. The hit was done. He could easily just skate off there without driving Elias into the ice.

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Also, if you watch the ref, he was very close, saw the whole thing and began looking up the ice after the hit.

After the hit and before the judo toss. He starts to follow the play immediately after they come together.

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

It does not appear to even enter his mind that this could be a penalty, you never see any arm movement or even a long look that a ref usually takes. He seems surprised that the Canuck player was even hurt as the play moves up.

Because the hit he saw wasn't a penalty.

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

To me, this is what happens when an NHL player checks someone who has the body of a tall and skinny bantam sized player encountering body checks for the first time.

No. Driving someone to the ice is not what happens. DoPS makes that pretty clear.

Originally Posted by Royle9

Unfortunate, but not nearly as malicious as the hit thrown on Dube by the same team who wouldn't recognize the dirtiness of it in the media.

Other than the guy who threw the hit saying to the media that he knew it was bad on his part and he needs to be more careful.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Other than the guy who threw the hit saying to the media that he knew it was bad on his part and he needs to be more careful.

Does that make it better in your mind? I know it changes nothing to me, in fact were LUCKY Dube wasn't injured, "sorry" doesn't cut it in this case.

But based on your statement above, if Matheson comes out today apologizing and being more careful next time does that make everything better? Does his suspension for an arguably "legal" hit get revoked? We may be on the same page here, and you're simply just pointing out what E.G did about it from a vocal standpoint so I apologize if that's the case.

I'm not buying this crap, it's really tough to watch/read listen to the media some times when it pertains to certain players. Its a shame how political sports remains to be.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

I don't see anything wrong with that hit. however you should learn after getting rocked. Kid comes across the Blueline with his head down. This isnt non contact hockey. If one wants to play with their head down whilst trying to dangle everyone, don't play full contact hockey.

You have to be aware of your surroundings at all times, especially when you have the puck.

Absolutely. I agree.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?
Why does he need to destroy the kid?
The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

He doesnt need to 'destroy' the kid, but hes a defenceman and the opposition is coming in to his zone with his head down. What do you want him to do?

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I’m sorry this mindset is the problem
Why does that hit need to be thrown?
Why does he need to destroy the kid?
The “keep your head up” argument is past it’s best before date.
Does anyone enjoy seeing stuff like this still? Really? Kid lying face down on the ice out cold?

The hit was made cause the opposing player did what he is supposed to do. It's not his fault the kid with the puck wasn't able to brace himself for a legal and hockey hit. He didn't have his back turned but rather felt he could go through the zone with his head down.

No, I don't enjoy seeing someone out cold like that. However the dman did exactly what he should be doing. It was a great hit and defensive play. Intimidation definitely would have set in from there on, which is part of the game.

I'm curious though Jiri, have you ever played contact hockey at any age? Not saying it makes a difference in your opinion on this but it sounds like you possibly haven't. Reason is one of the fundamentals of hockey is to always keep your head up when handling the puck for both puck movement and protecting one self from big hits. It isn't, nor will it ever be past its due date.

Furthermore contact in hockey is not just about separating the puck from the player. Now if you want the game to change to that ideology and rule, it's your opinion of course. But it would be a huge change to the game. Something I'm sure a majority of those who play and watch would not want. The game has evolved in many ways, just perhaps not to what you feel constitutes change.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

The hit was made cause the opposing player did what he is supposed to do. It's not his fault the kid with the puck wasn't able to brace himself for a legal and hockey hit. He didn't have his back turned but rather felt he could go through the zone with his head down.

No, I don't enjoy seeing someone out cold like that. However the dman did exactly what he should be doing. It was a great hit and defensive play. Intimidation definitely would have set in from there on, which is part of the game.

I'm curious though Jiri, have you ever played contact hockey at any age? Not saying it makes a difference in your opinion on this but it sounds like you possibly haven't. Reason is one of the fundamentals of hockey is to always keep your head up when handling the puck for both puck movement and protecting one self from big hits. It isn't, nor will it ever be past its due date.

Furthermore contact in hockey is not just about separating the puck from the player. Now if you want the game to change to that ideology and rule, it's your opinion of course. But it would be a huge change to the game. Something I'm sure a majority of those who play and watch would not want. The game has evolved in many ways, just perhaps not to what you feel constitutes change.

I played low levels of contact sports, including full contact ball hockey, but not ice hockey (I'm a terrible skater)
And I recognize this is a huge part of the game.
I do have some personal connections with former athletes who live with the results of concussions on a daily basis. Which is part of the reason for my passion on the topic.