AB vs BC - Kinder Morgan Dispute

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Ducay

The top two groups are useless gov't folks. The bottom group seems pretty good; they've got Frank McKenna, but was expecting them to cut the middle man and just appoint Murray Edwards.

He's too adversarial. They nailed the non government panel. Powerful Liberals with likely contacts into the current federal government, a constitutional law guru, a respected brain like Tertzakian, and representatives from the most respected Oil Sands players who are committed to Alberta.

[killer_carlson]

Shannon Phillips is certainly the most aggressive of the Ministers. In question period she was often the one standing up to Fildebrant's theatrics and antics.

She has the environmental credentials to stand up to any protester and tell them to shove it. And I think she'll do it because I think she respects the process that was undertaken to get the approval. She won't put up with any of the calls for conflict by the protesters.

Her presence certainly is an interesting element.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by indes

I live in BC and am stoked Alberta is doing this. The BC vs evil Alberta narrative is a complete joke. Listening to uninformed, clueless people oppose pipelines makes me want a world ending event.

i completely agree that the bc vs alberta thing is ridiculous.

wanting a 'world ending event' might be going a little far (ha! ha!), but i do agree that people need to educate themselves.

i generally try not to pay too much attention to politics... i guess i get my fill of people acting like children from my 2 and 4 year old!

i think the pipeline is good for both bc and alberta and the sooner work begins on it the better

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by indes

I live in BC and am stoked Alberta is doing this. The BC vs evil Alberta narrative is a complete joke. Listening to uninformed, clueless people oppose pipelines makes me want a world ending event.

Ditto
Well maybe not the world ending event part

To add to this, NIMBYs in BC have far too much power on many issues. It's not just pipelines, it's any construction, real estate development, infrastructure improvements...
It's something I'm growing increasing annoyed by as a resident of Vancouver. They vocal minority doesn't speak for everyone.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 4X4

This situation saddens me. I love BC. I spend lots of time and money there. This is like being pissed off with my favourite sibling.

I echo this.

I've always felt that outside of Vancouver, BC and Alberta were similar groups with similar values, but unfortunately the ignorant but vocal minority are the ones getting their day in the Sun on this one.

At this point I view BC as 'The Inmates Running the Asylum.'

My BC-spent dollars are fairly inconsequential and the ones I do spend are non-negotiable, but all I can look forward to is more forward-thinking Citizens coming to the forefront.

We shouldnt be at war with BC, but unfortunately its like that less-favoured sibling who finally sees their shot to get one up on you and they're hell-bent on taking it.

It is a sorry state of affairs.

[MoneyGuy]

Listened to a brief excerpt of a Ryan Jespersen interview and the person (I came in late so didn't get the name) said that this is all politicking by B.C. and citizens don't agree with their province's position.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Listened to a brief excerpt of a Ryan Jespersen interview and the person (I came in late so didn't get the name) said that this is all politicking by B.C. and citizens don't agree with their province's position.

Which goes back to the whole, its a minority that are causing this.

The bottom line to me, is its fairly irrelevant at the moment that their citizen's don't agree, at least for the next few years. Its that they elected what is basically a coalition government where the Green Party rally holds power.

At the end of the day, Alberta needs to basically go to war against BC to get Horgan to back down.

I would expect that at the end of the day, this rift between parties is going to get a lot worse leading up to the next election in BC. Especially if the UCP comes into power in Alberta on a mandate of pushing the pipeline through.

Right now the deciding vote so to speak is with the Federal Government which is going to have to come down a lot harder in the coming months on where they stand.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Which goes back to the whole, its a minority that are causing this.

The bottom line to me, is its fairly irrelevant at the moment that their citizen's don't agree, at least for the next few years. Its that they elected what is basically a coalition government where the Green Party rally holds power.

At the end of the day, Alberta needs to basically go to war against BC to get Horgan to back down.

I would expect that at the end of the day, this rift between parties is going to get a lot worse leading up to the next election in BC. Especially if the UCP comes into power in Alberta on a mandate of pushing the pipeline through.

Right now the deciding vote so to speak is with the Federal Government which is going to have to come down a lot harder in the coming weeks on where they stand.

FYP

And I'm not sure it's even weeks.

Watch Notley hit BC with another response on Monday or Tuesday next week to dominate the media cycle again. And watch the ripples for the PM to stop BC get louder across the rest of the country.

The National Post editorial comment had quite the headline yesterday:
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-v...ds-a-new-spine

The new regime, of course, is completely untested, has no track record to warrant confidence, and so will discourage investment in Canada while major industry players evaluate the likely impact of the regulations. As if what our resource sector needs now is yet more uncertainty and confusion on the regulatory side. But the real failure of the plan is that the Liberals have fundamentally misunderstood the problem facing our resource companies and our economy as a whole: the problem isn’t getting projects approved, it’s getting them built.

The energy board, regarded internationally for its expertise and technique, ultimately was doing what it was supposed to do. It evaluated projects on their merits, followed the established guidelines and approved or rejected them as warranted.

[CaptainCrunch]

I get what your saying Killer.

However I think that to be honest, Horgan can't do anything but dig his feet in, he's in a slim coalition government and if he gives in on issuing one permit, or backing up his position at all, the BC government will fall.

The tail is wagging the Dog here.

Until the Federal Government for example holds the Infrastructure funds hammer over the BC governments head and sets a firm deadline, Horgan will continue to bob and weave and play the victim being assaulted by a evil Alberta and a oppressive Federal Government.

Horgan already knows that if he can draw this out and get into the courts which will delay things by years that its likely that Kinder Morgan will eventually throw in the towel and spend their money elsewhere.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Listened to a brief excerpt of a Ryan Jespersen interview and the person (I came in late so didn't get the name) said that this is all politicking by B.C. and citizens don't agree with their province's position.

I suspect that's true, but I also think it's important to remember that the opposition (while the minority) is extremely vocal and has very strong opinions on the matter whereas the majority that support it in BC feel far less strongly.

I can count myself in the latter group. I support the pipeline and think that any province trying to throw up trade barriers is ridiculous and illegal, but I'd be lying if I said the potential for the catastrophe of a major heavy crude oil spill doesn't give me a bit of pause. So while I think the project needs to go ahead, I generally have pretty mixed feelings on the matter. In a perfect world I'd rather not have a pipeline and increased tanker traffic through the area, but ultimately the principle of the matter is more important and the reward is worth the risk.

Or put another way, in an election this issue is probably a dealbreaker for most of those who oppose the pipeline but probably isn't for many that support it. So given that, it's not surprising that the government is kowtowing to a loud minority, particularly when you consider they're being propped up by the Green Party.

[Azure]

So we all agree that Notley is doing pretty good?

[CaptainCrunch]

She's done a good first step, its the carry through that she has to be good at.

I think she can't afford any kind of stall in terms of this fight with BC and in pushing the federal government to act.

Yes the Wine thing was a good first step.

[Azure]

I would personally go for a beer ban as well, and I would find a way to push this stupidity to the Supreme Court and get rid of this stupid trade barriers.

[killer_carlson]

pushing it to the courts will see the end of the project because of delays.

Something else on this is that the "vocal minority" is also very well funded, including foreign investment.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Listened to a brief excerpt of a Ryan Jespersen interview and the person (I came in late so didn't get the name) said that this is all politicking by B.C. and citizens don't agree with their province's position.

Which actually makes a lot of sense within the context of the balance of power in BC being held by the NDP but precariously swung by the whims of the Greens.

Could you imagine that? Not just the NDP in power but the Green party with an actual say in affairs? Thats like walking through Hell barefoot, or, with Birkenstocks at any rate...

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Azure

So we all agree that Notley is doing pretty good?

I am not a NDP supporter in the least bit and have had very little reason to change my mind over this term but I will admit, this took some guts. I want to see how she follows through. The easy part is done and now the hard part of getting what is right is in front of her.

It reminds me of my take on Gulutzen.... I don't think he is the right person for the job just as I don't think Notley is but I certainly won't wish failure on either..... I hope Notley absolutely kills each step of this process just as I hope GG gets us past the 2nd round of the playoffs!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

I would personally go for a beer ban as well, and I would find a way to push this stupidity to the Supreme Court and get rid of this stupid trade barriers.

If we're looking at incremental steps, then beer is logical.

However after Horgan responded with a solid, who cares. Something that hurts more is going to have to be put on notice.

Softwood, Seafoods, produce.

The nuclear button is still there where she stops issuing permits to send oil and gas to BC markets.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

pushing it to the courts will see the end of the project because of delays.

Something else on this is that the "vocal minority" is also very well funded, including foreign investment.

It’s a very fine line the Liberals are walking. I don’t envy them. They can throw down the hammer then see the courts get involved. Do nothing and risk KM walking away which would be catastrophic not just for oil but for confederation and business investment.

I still see it getting built. The Liberals just cannot afford for it to fail for many reasons. It may appear they are disinterested, but deep down I can’t see the Liberal party built on pragmatism let this fail and let idiology win. Even the NEP was about keeping a revenue stream not letting it die.

The stakes are very high for Canada and they must know that. I think they have a trump card ready to pull and will go nuclear if the time is right.

On the side I picked up some Howe Sound Lager yesterday, and returned it for another beer. Howe Sound is ground zero of the stupid, will not support. Funny how It truly impacts my spend now.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Azure

So we all agree that Notley is doing pretty good?

I like that she's getting some brains together and putting forth some kind of strategy. I think the boycotts are stupid and won't work. Ultimately they will benefit the wine industry and likely whatever industry she hits next. And it's not like Alberta doesn't sell anything to BC.

I hope she's on to a better strategy of political/legal pressure.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Azure

So we all agree that Notley is doing pretty good?

Yes. She demonstrates her ability to govern and leadership as a statesperson - on a regular basis. May not agree with all decisions made by the NDP - but i find them to be a very trustworthy, transparent and credible government.