Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital - Page 51 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cowboy89 · 06-01-2020, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I agree. Vancouver burning their city down over a hockey game (twice

) is a riot. Protesting a very real human issue is not a riot.

If protesting activities includes such activities such as destroying property, looting, harming shop owners defending their stores / livelihoods, etc. then it's rioting.

The problems with these events are that I think there's three groups of people involved in most riots:

1. People who are generally peaceful who are there for the original purpose of the gathering and have no intention of doing anything violent and do not directly engage in it at all.

2. There's a segment in every population that will riot whenever the thin line between civilization and anarchy gets thin enough. I'm willing to bet the people in Montreal smashing windows and stealing guitars out of that one shop last night would be doing the exact same thing or similar if there was a riot after the Canadiens won a playoff round. Rioters of opportunity if you will.

3.There's people who fall in both categories. The meeting of the Venn diagram if you will. A supporter of the cause will always try to pretend this group is minimal and all the miscreants fall in group 2, and someone looking to dismiss or oppose a cause will try to paint everyone in attendance at the the overall event as part of this group.

Given crowd sizes and how hard these things are to analyze it's very difficult to determine how much of group 2 there is and how much of group 3. What is knowable is that in order for their to be riots there's strong elements of both groups present. Members of group 3 to rationalize the violence and members of group 2 to perpetuate it and keep it going.

Azure · 06-01-2020, 10:25 AM

At this point I think we can safely say that there has been a secondary group of 'people', notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests and riot, loot and wreck everything they can find.

On Twitter you can find tweet after tweet with videos showing even the protesters starting stop these idiots and hand them over to the police. The media as usual is slow to respond, and slow to catch on to what is happening. Some outlets refuse to even report what is happening. All we see is police brutality and black people rioting. Both are true, but both are not the whole truth, and as usual the media can't seem to get it right.

The perfect storm right now.

Azure · 06-01-2020, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If protesting activities includes such activities such as destroying property, looting, harming shop owners defending their stores / livelihoods, etc. then it's rioting.

The problems with these events are that I think there's three groups of people involved in most riots:

1. People who are generally peaceful who are there for the original purpose of the gathering and have no intention of doing anything violent and do not directly engage in it at all.

2. There's a segment in every population that will riot whenever the thin line between civilization and anarchy gets thin enough. I'm willing to bet the people in Montreal smashing windows and stealing guitars out of that one shop last night would be doing the exact same thing or similar if there was a riot after the Canadiens won a playoff round. Rioters of opportunity if you will.

3.There's people who fall in both categories. The meeting of the Venn diagram if you will. A supporter of the cause will always try to pretend this group is minimal and all the miscreants fall in group 2, and someone looking to dismiss or oppose a cause will try to paint everyone in attendance at the the overall event as part of this group.

Given crowd sizes and how hard these things are to analyze it's very difficult to determine how much of group 2 there is and how much of group 3. What is knowable is that in order for their to be riots there's strong elements of both groups present. Members of group 3 to rationalize the violence and members of group 2 to perpetuate it and keep it going.

Which group are the anarchists whose main purpose is to take down society?

There is ample evidence that they have hijacked many of these protests and are using them to destroy everything they see.

Sliver · 06-01-2020, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

At this point I think we can safely say that there has been a secondary group of 'people', notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests and riot, loot and wreck everything they can find.

On Twitter you can find tweet after tweet with videos showing even the protesters starting stop these idiots and hand them over to the police. The media as usual is slow to respond, and slow to catch on to what is happening. Some outlets refuse to even report what is happening. All we see is police brutality and black people rioting. Both are true, but both are not the whole truth, and as usual the media can't seem to get it right.

The perfect storm right now.

OMG, how can people be so dumb? Was it Antifa in the 1992 LA riots? In Vancouver? Rioting is typically just opportunistic people getting carried away when the mood turns in a large gathering/protest.

Sliver · 06-01-2020, 10:30 AM

TBH, I kind of get rioting. It looks fun.

afc wimbledon · 06-01-2020, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliver

TBH, I kind of get rioting. It looks fun.

I have been in some big demo's back in the 70's and early 80's anti Thatcher mostly and there is a moment when you realise the cops aren't in control, that the group is, it is tremendously exciting, you get a huge rush of power out of it, especially if you are in your teens, an age where you don't really feel like you have control or power over much.

Crowd psychology tends to take over at that point and things get out of hand very quickly

sketchyt · 06-01-2020, 10:36 AM

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

List of incidents of police brutality since the protests started. Spoiler tag put on because the list was so GD long.

Spoiler!

ResAlien · 06-01-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliver

OMG, how can people be so dumb? Was it Antifa in the 1992 LA riots? In Vancouver? Rioting is typically just opportunistic people getting carried away when the mood turns in a large gathering/protest.

Dude everything is antifa. Cops fire teargas into a peaceful protest? Antifa. Random guy throws a rock? The scourge of antifa is here. Grocery store out of TP? Damn antifa strikes again and their reach knows no bounds.

Anarchists and antifa. They’re a cabal that’s controlling everything, they’re directing the riots (but you won’t hear the liberal media call it riots) with their far reaching network of organized anarchism. Open your third bro and see the truth.

Johnny Makarov · 06-01-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliver

TBH, I kind of get rioting. It looks fun.

Well it looks like you will have to leave Calgary to have your fun.
If we didn't riot after Game 6 of the 2004 cup finals when Kerry Fraser handed the Lightning the win, we will never riot.

Tits and riots would have been hella fun 16 years ago!

afc wimbledon · 06-01-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

At this point I think we can safely say that there has been a secondary group of 'people', notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests and riot, loot and wreck everything they can find.

On Twitter you can find tweet after tweet with videos showing even the protesters starting stop these idiots and hand them over to the police. The media as usual is slow to respond, and slow to catch on to what is happening. Some outlets refuse to even report what is happening. All we see is police brutality and black people rioting. Both are true, but both are not the whole truth, and as usual the media can't seem to get it right.

The perfect storm right now.

You were half right with this, it's a handful of idiots, it isn't organised or the work of 'agitators' its just the usual group of 19 year old kids looking to stir up ####, it's exactly the same group that burnt cop cars in Vancouver in 2011, there are always a few idiots and in a large crowd they can have a far greater effect as they draw in people who weren't there for trouble but get caught up in the event.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 06-01-2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

cops come at a guy for filming a police car burning:
https://twitter.com/johncusack/statu...53514242228229

lol at "a guy". It's John Cusack.

PsYcNeT · 06-01-2020, 10:42 AM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1267491152950964225

This should go well. The Prison Riot teams well known for uh, says here, brutality against prisoners. Huh.

Itse · 06-01-2020, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

At this point I think we can safely say that there has been a secondary group of 'people', notably Antifa, that has used this opportunity to hijack the protests and riot, loot and wreck everything they can find.

On Twitter you can find tweet after tweet with videos showing even the protesters starting stop these idiots and hand them over to the police.

Is there any actual proof suggesting that these people are somehow Antifa, other than people just saying they must be because it fits with their idea of Antifa?

Because I'm really not seeing it, and yeah I am kind of an expert. Sure, the antifa in the US isn't the same as it tends to be in Europe, but generally these days it's pretty easy spot the antifa if they're actually present as a group, because they tend to be way more organized than any other group present. In some cases better organized than the police.

Since the antifa-movement is heavily influenced by the long history of organized civil resistance and tends to be influenced by anarchist ideals of self-organization, they're not typically a force of chaos in situations like this, nor do they typically move alone. Unless that is their chosen tactic of course.

I'm not saying it's out of the question that in some places in the US the local antifa has decided that maximum chaos is somehow in their interest. Some of them are kind of nuts.

I am however saying that at least in Europe it would be pretty unlikely that a bunch of random civilians could catch an antifa-member that was out there deliberately causing chaos, because they'd have an exit strategy for that scenario and backup. At least that goes for the type of anarchist-antifa -types who would be the sort of troublemakers you're thinking of, at least in Europe.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that every riot in the US right now has an antifa presence. It's just not realistic at all. It's even less realistic to suggest that every rioting city in the US has that specific type of anarchist-antifa-presence. Even if they would be present in every city, they would act differently in different places, because they are self-organizing groups who choose their own goals and tactics.

Antifa is just not an organization like that. Some groups are like A and some are B and some are C. The unifying factor is not that they're anarchists, or violent, but that they're anti-fascists.

Also it's worth noting that while the sort of boogeyman violent anarchists the conservatives likes to talk about do exist, they're extremely rare even among anarchists, and anarchists are really rare.

Also, not all anarchists are antifa.

Quote:

The media as usual is slow to respond, and slow to catch on to what is happening. Some outlets refuse to even report what is happening. All we see is police brutality and black people rioting. Both are true, but both are not the whole truth, and as usual the media can't seem to get it right.

The media unfortunately loves a simple narrative with two opposing sides with differing goals.

It's why they're usually absolutely terrible at covering a protest of any significant size, because any protest like that is just bound to have all sorts of people with really different ideas.

peter12 · 06-01-2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

lol at "a guy". It's John Cusack.

I mean, these days he is just kind of "a guy."

PepsiFree · 06-01-2020, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Pepsi. I'm asking for honesty. That's it. If you say one thing and turn around and say I meant something else, that's not being truthful. People need to be called out when they are "mincing words" then claiming otherwise.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

They really don't. What are you hoping to gain, exactly? I think we can call someone out on something they said, and if they're happy to walk it back or clarify their meaning, we believe them and move on. If you need an apology or to hold someone accountable for something they're no longer willing to defend or that they say they didn't mean, that's really your problem and your problem alone.

I only know how toxic and petty the path you're on is because I've been taken the same one plenty prior, and it's just a really sad way to participate in spaces like this.

That's not to say we can't all be catty bitches, because that's just fun sometimes. And apologies for this very off-topic post in a thread where the actual topic is important.

Crown Royal · 06-01-2020, 10:49 AM

I'm just ignoring them at this point in time, I said my piece. They are welcome to believe whatever stupid #### they want to.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 06-01-2020, 10:50 AM

I would like to take this opportunity to re-issue my modest proposal, stated previously in another thread, that every time someone says they're "calling someone out", they must be prepared to duel that person in the street with pistols. Preferably at noon.

troutman · 06-01-2020, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

I mean, these days he is just kind of "a guy."

John is very active on Twitter and around Chicago. He is also scheduled to play the coveted role of "troutman" in the movie adaptation of my life.

agulati · 06-01-2020, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

John is very active on Twitter and around Chicago. He is also scheduled to play the coveted role of "troutman" in the movie adaptation of my life.

Will it be a musical? It better be a musical

PepsiFree · 06-01-2020, 10:54 AM

Re: tHe AnTiFa BoOgEyMaNnn

I thought these tweets were on the nose:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1267498265093853186

https://twitter.com/user/status/1267131744609763332