04-26-2016, 11:08 AM
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#1
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Franchise Player
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The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare
Not sure if anyone is following this story. Basically a couple from near Lethbridge is being charged with failing to provide the necessities of life to their 19-month son, as they treated a developing case of bacterial meningitis with natural remedies, and smoothies.
Obviously, disgusting. I find two things interesting.
1) These parents deserve a stiff penalty. Public opinion seems to mainly agree. However, this same sentiment would almost certainly not apply if the defendants were indigenous. Why is this the case?
2) An opportunity to have a national dialogue on pseudo-science, particularly of the medical kind. It really astounds me that in a society as advanced as Canada we still have people who believe that onion powder can stave off viral or bacterial infections. It also blows me away that we don't feel comfortable calling these people what they really are - insane, dangerous lunatics.
Perhaps a conviction will be a step forward on both points.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ield-1.3553197
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04-26-2016, 11:10 AM
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#2
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: sector 7G
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Naturopaths or whatever they are called should be jailed for fraud.
Last edited by habernac; 04-26-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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04-26-2016, 11:14 AM
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#3
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
1) These parents deserve a stiff penalty. Public opinion seems to mainly agree. However, this same sentiment would almost certainly not apply if the defendants were indigenous. Why is this the case?
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I seem to recall that there was a similar case to this with a first nations family and child with cancer and there was considerable backlash for that too.
Either way, disgusting. A person's beliefs shouldn't override a child's healthcare but you'll never change it. People like this, anti-vaxxers and the like will always believe they shouldn't be told how to care for their child and that the government shouldn't be allowed to tell them what to do.
Last edited by polak; 04-26-2016 at 11:17 AM.
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04-26-2016, 11:17 AM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habernac
Nauturopaths or whatever they are called should be jailed for fraud.
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Ditto for "Nutritionists".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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04-26-2016, 11:18 AM
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#5
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Norm!
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Right now, it just feels like I can open a supplements store and start dispensing health advice. On top of that, I can pseudo science the crap out of anything because supplements don't fall under a drug category where they have to be tested and proven to work.
Its the biggest money grab of all time.
You could almost run the store to see how much of a sucker people are.
Oh no Mr Smith, if you drink this extract of Shark Urine it goes a long way to curing your cold.
You're kids got the whooping cough, well what you need see is to give him this extract of gorilla semen three times a day until his cough goes away, no don't you be talking to your doctor about this treatment, its a secret and he works for big Pharma.
I tend to think that these supplements should have to go through the same testing and have the same level of proof as drugs that you find in a pharmacy, and they should have warning labels.
This supplement will improve your urine stream
Warning, this supplement might not improve your urine stream.
I tend to think that there should be a heavy certification program put in place for people that want to market this garbage as well.
Oh and if they're prescribing things to deal with for real actual illnesses, then they should have to issue a script with a signature on it so when it goes haywire or does nothing they can be held responsible.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-26-2016, 11:19 AM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT
Ditto for "Nutritionists".
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Can we include all those people on Facebook selling detox/shake weight loss garbage?
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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04-26-2016, 11:20 AM
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#7
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polak
People like this, anti-vaxxers and the like will always believe they shouldn't be told how to care for their child and that the government shouldn't be allowed to tell them what to do.
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This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
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04-26-2016, 11:22 AM
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#8
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Franchise Player
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As this case demonstrates, there are certain standards that parents must hold themselves to in regards to the care of their children. So you can choose not to vaccinate your kids, but if they die of whooping cough, you are legally responsible. Not to mention that the price of your irrationality is paid for by your child.
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04-26-2016, 11:23 AM
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#9
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
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04-26-2016, 11:24 AM
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#10
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist
This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
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Freedom in raising them is one thing which is fine, but it is quite another to have freedom in choosing how to 'treat' a curable illness and letting your kids die.
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04-26-2016, 11:25 AM
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#11
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarygeologist
This position isn't held just by anti-vaxxers though. I have my kids vaccinated but at the same time I do believe that parents need to have freedom and choices in raising their children.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
As this case demonstrates, there are certain standards that parents must hold themselves to in regards to the care of their children. So you can choose not to vaccinate your kids, but if they die of whooping cough, you are legally responsible. Not to mention that the price of your irrationality is paid for by your child.
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Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
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04-26-2016, 11:26 AM
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#12
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
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Not to mention that their naturopath told them that an effective treatment was an echinacea tincture! Why isn't she on the stand with them!?
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04-26-2016, 11:26 AM
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#13
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
I hope they go to jail to set a precedence that herbs and spices aren't an alternative to conventional medicine. They were told by a nurse that their kid potentially had meningitis and to take him to emergency and they did nothing.
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But for the Cannibals out there feeding your kids herbs and spices makes then just delicious which I guess is a plus
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-26-2016, 11:27 AM
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#14
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
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You know its funny, I'm pretty much on the right side of the political spectrum and a bit of a freedoms and civil rights hawk, but I so totally agree with this.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-26-2016, 11:28 AM
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#15
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I read that the father of one of the defendants owns a naturopath business, so it is likely that the defendant was raised (or indoctrinated) at a young age to believe in this sort of thing.
It is so sad though and something has to happen to shut these frauds down.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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04-26-2016, 11:31 AM
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#16
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Franchise Player
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Poor kid. As someone who had meningitis when I was in grade 11 I feel their pain.
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04-26-2016, 11:33 AM
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#18
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT
Ditto for "Nutritionists".
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Isn't a nutritionist a recognized profession basing their advice on scientific facts?
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04-26-2016, 11:36 AM
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#19
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Disagree because their choices are putting other people at risk. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, then don't send them to public school or take them to places where they can expose others to that risk. Since that's logistically impossible, then we need to make vaccines mandatory.
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Yeah, of course. There was more than a hint of sarcasm in my post.
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04-26-2016, 11:36 AM
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#20
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
Isn't a nutritionist a recognized profession basing their advice on scientific facts?
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No, that's a Registered Dietician. Nutritionists aren't real things.
It's a common and unfortunate misconception though.
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