Renewed passenger rail service between Banff and Calgary?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by nik-

ehh ... I'm not sold on this mass transit experiment.

If I'm reading the thread right I think the key is to create another mass transit system that the 200 passengers can transfer on to that takes them outside Banff so that the town filled with thousand of tourists doesn't come to a screeching halt with said 200 train passengers.

I read that one time a Taylor Swift concert caused a traffic jam in downtown Toronto, which is why you don't see Toronto concerts anymore.

[marsplasticeraser]

This is it. You need to do something to solve transportation issues. I’m in the area 2-3x a week and the area is a victim of its own success.

Transportation is a big issue in Banff lake Louise now, and a negative for many visitors. The region can’t take more cars.

As an example, Moraine lake and lake Louise are being underserved by low quality buses, ruining visitor experience. Further, if you have a car you need to get to moraine lake pre-6am to park and Louise is 8am.

Town of Banff has major parking issues, as does Canmore.

More cars is not a feasible option. And a Good portion of foreign tourists don’t want the hassle of a car.

A rail link would:
- reduce congestion on highway
- reduce congestion for tourists in key tourist corridor
- make transport for tourists easier
- increase demand for public transportation in Canmore to lake Louise
- increase demand for taxis

A rail-link plus some gondolas (for example from Louise train station to ski hill, moraine lake, lake Louise) would make a lot of sense for year-round usage.

Tourism is a big driver for that part of alberta and generates a lot of tax revenue and employs a lot of people. We need to invest where jobs and wealth are being created in Alberta.

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

There is legit mass transit in Banff now, including ROAM to Canmore. They could make the trainstation a hub; it's kind of perfect in that it's a bit out of town and they've been trying to push people more to the perifery as they enter town ie park outside town and take a bus in.

[Two Fivenagame]

Is there a chance the track could bend?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Is there a chance the track could bend?

Not on your life my non-descript friend.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GGG

My goalposts are firmly set as there is no case for rail to make sense as a public investment from Calgary to Banff.

There is no case for spending public money on rail becuase of transportation requirements that exist when you get to the destination so the last mile becomes a significant hurdle. (The last mile in this case being more like 100 miles given the tourist sites that people want to see)

If you do solve the last mile problem a perfectly suitable alternative of busing exists and is more flexible once at the spread out destination.

So given the above when allocating 300 million of public capital plus xx million for trains and stations you need to show that you are better than the alternative technology. If we want to be green just spend some of that capital on battery powered buses.

Further to this at a $30 round trip this only makes sense for people who don't have vehicles or are going alone. As soon as you add in a second person it's cheaper to drive. So this is for airport visitors and those without cars. So how many airport visitors who aren't renting cars and aren't on a Brewster bus tour are there out of the 4 million visitors to Banff each year?

There is no goalpost moving here. It's a bad idea

Highways have terrible ROI yet we still spend billions of tax dollars on those.

[Northendzone]

^ how would goods move without hiways?

At the price they are proposing, it would take 100’s of years to get a payback on the track.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ how would goods move without hiways?

At the price they are proposing, it would take 100’s of years to get a payback on the track.

How would goods move without rail lines?

[jayswin]

lol

[GGG]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Highways have terrible ROI yet we still spend billions of tax dollars on those.

Source?

We collect more in gas tax than we spend on roads and I believe most study's show that spending on road improvements significantly improves economic capacity.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

How would goods move without rail lines?

those rail lines currently exsist - we are talking about a new rail line here.

also, many people drove a vehicle to work today; how many drove a train?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

those rail lines currently exsist - we are talking about a new rail line here.

also, many people drove a vehicle to work today; how many drove a train?

In Calgary 100k or so

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

those rail lines currently exsist - we are talking about a new rail line here.

also, many people drove a vehicle to work today; how many drove a train?

Most take their own vehicle yes... is your assumption that none take a train? Because I think that number is around 20% of commuters in Canada. I don’t know the exact statistics though or where to find them.

I would also argue that number would increase if the rail infrastructure improved.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

those rail lines currently exsist - we are talking about a new rail line here.

also, many people drove a vehicle to work today; how many drove a train?

Dozens drove a train today, but not to work. Most drove a vehicle to their job driving a train.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GGG

Source?

We collect more in gas tax than we spend on roads and I believe most study's show that spending on road improvements significantly improves economic capacity.

Source?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by marsplasticeraser

More cars is not a feasible option. And a Good portion of foreign tourists don’t want the hassle of a car.

I know I don't. I hate renting cars on vacation. Being able to vacation in a place where I don't have to drive is a big selling point.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I know I don't. I hate renting cars on vacation. Being able to vacation in a place where I don't have to drive is a big selling point.

I agree with this very much. Renting a car in another country is a PITA.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I agree with this very much. Renting a car in another country is a PITA.

Really? I've never found it any harder in Europe than renting one here. It's always an adventure driving in a foreign country.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Source?

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/press...Motorists.aspx

Here's the most thourough study. Ontario based. On busy roads the taxes and fees cover the costs. As a note they don't include trucking taxes based and only light duty trucks and automobiles in the evaluation.

So a road like the Trans Canada Highway which is relatively low cost to build (limited number of interchanges) and has high traffic volumes easily pays for itself in gas tax collected.

But I don't think you were really interested in a source

[Bleeding Red]

As a conference planner I can tell you that this is one of those projects that helps move Calgary up the convention destination ladder, especially if has a stop at the airport. The last conference I planned for Banff nearly all 200 attendees rented a car - solely to get from the airport to the Springs. Their cars sat in the lot for 3 days.

It would also make single day trips easier for convention attendees. More flexibility, classier travel.

In terms of costs, if driving, don't forget to add the fee for entering the park (what is that now? $15?).

Would a train shorten the trip?

A train runs from downtown TO to Niagara Falls in the summer. It has proven popular enough that they have increased the schedule. I have not heard any anecdotal evidence about convention goers using it. I think it is mostly those who live downtown without cars on that train.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GGG

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/press...Motorists.aspx

Here's the most thourough study. Ontario based. On busy roads the taxes and fees cover the costs. As a note they don't include trucking taxes based and only light duty trucks and automobiles in the evaluation.

So a road like the Trans Canada Highway which is relatively low cost to build (limited number of interchanges) and has high traffic volumes easily pays for itself in gas tax collected.

But I don't think you were really interested in a source

Ontario?