Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[N-E-B]

I have a question for the “can’t win with Gaudreau” crowd: why watch? If you don’t believe they can win, what’s the point of being a fan?

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I have a question for the “can’t win with Gaudreau” crowd: why watch? If you don’t believe they can win, what’s the point of being a fan?

Supporting a team has deeper roots than current success or thoughts on particular players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I have a question for the “can’t win with Gaudreau” crowd: why watch? If you don’t believe they can win, what’s the point of being a fan?

Did you watch the Flames while they were rebuilding?

A fan supports a team, whether they win or not, and whether they are capable of winning the SC, or not.

[bubbsy]

I think the flames can win with Monahan/Gaudreau, but would require 1 more elite player in the top 6 for that to happen. In tight games, it's too often top line or nothing as far as this offense is concerned.

Of course there's probably plenty of teams that could claim they are one elite forward away from truly competing for the cup...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I think the flames can win with Monahan/Gaudreau, but would require 1 more elite player in the top 6 for that to happen. In tight games, it's too often top line or nothing as far as this offense is concerned.

Of course there's probably plenty of teams that could claim they are one elite forward away from truly competing for the cup...

Tkachuk? I also think Lindholm is really close to that level.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Did you watch the Flames while they were rebuilding?

A fan supports a team, whether they win or not, and whether they are capable of winning the SC, or not.

I watch the rebuilds because they get me excited for the future. Now that the future has arrived I gotta believe they can win. Of course you support the team win or lose, but if you don’t believe they can win I guess I just don’t see the point. It takes all the fun out of it. Sure, it might be tougher with a guy like Johnny but to say they’ll never win with him just doesn’t seem fun to me.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Tkachuk? I also think Lindholm is really close to that level.

There are 6 players in the top 6, and realistically the Flames have 5 positions covered. The prevailing thought is they need one more.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There are 6 players in the top 6, and realistically the Flames have 5 positions covered. The prevailing thought is they need one more.

They are saying "elite". No team has six elite top six forwards.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They are saying "elite". No team has six elite top six forwards.

They are saying they need one more elite guy. I don't think that means the other 5 guys are all "elite".

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I have a question for the “can’t win with Gaudreau” crowd: why watch? If you don’t believe they can win, what’s the point of being a fan?

Didn’t say can’t I said will have a hard time winning with him
Plus I might be wrong
Just because I have an opinion doesn’t make it a certainty

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They are saying they need one more elite guy. I don't think that means the other 5 guys are all "elite".

Yes exactly, so why’d you respond to Gios post where he mentioned 1 more elite guy, by saying we had 5 positions covered??? What are you getting at?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They are saying they need one more elite guy. I don't think that means the other 5 guys are all "elite".

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yes exactly, so why’d you respond to Gios post where he mentioned 1 more elite guy, by saying we had 5 positions covered??? What are you getting at?

Yes, colour me confused.

a. Poster says we need three elite guys, mentioned JG and SM.
b. I say Tkachuk and maybe even Lindholm. That's three or four elite guys.
c. Cobra says we need six positions covered and have 5.
d. I say no team has six elite players.

I think we are talking at cross purposes. If you are saying that Frolik isn't good enough to be a top six, I say, maybe so, and maybe not by himself. But most teams have at least one guy in the top six who is not a "top six" player.

I mean, were Jaden Schwartz or Tyler Bozek legit top six guys last year? Or did they just fit really well by the time of the POs. Frolik's stats are about the same as theirs for last year.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Tkachuk? I also think Lindholm is really close to that level.

My opinion, tkatchuk is at the lindholm level. Smart, high end player, but not a driver of play.


They need a guy who cam help tkatchuk in consistent offensive pressure and production from the second line. I just don't see that from Frolik, and wonder when Backlund's numbers drop off (i think we start to see that this year, personally).

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I have a question for the “can’t win with Gaudreau” crowd: why watch? If you don’t believe they can win, what’s the point of being a fan?

I have said that we can't win with Gaudreau, as the main guy. We need more high end talent to take pressure off of Johnny and alleviate him of the tough defensive attention he gets in the post season, which is different hockey than the regular season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

I have said that we can't win with Gaudreau, as the main guy. We need more high end talent to take pressure off of Johnny and alleviate him of the tough defensive attention he gets in the post season, which is different hockey than the regular season.

I think Monahan becomes that guy this year.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They are saying they need one more elite guy. I don't think that means the other 5 guys are all "elite".

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yes exactly, so why’d you respond to Gios post where he mentioned 1 more elite guy, by saying we had 5 positions covered??? What are you getting at?

Originally Posted by bubbsy

My opinion, tkatchuk is at the lindholm level. Smart, high end player, but not a driver of play.


They need a guy who cam help tkatchuk in consistent offensive pressure and production from the second line. I just don't see that from Frolik, and wonder when Backlund's numbers drop off (i think we start to see that this year, personally).

I think both Tkachuk and Lindholm can "drive play" (which is IMO an overused term). They both can make plays, and Lindholm is a good puck carrier. FWIW Monahan can too.

But in any event, I think the top six is comparable to most really good teams in the league. Three extremely high level guys, two really good ones and one competent one who fills a niche.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think both Tkachuk and Lindholm can "drive play" (which is IMO an overused term). They both can make plays, and Lindholm is a good puck carrier. FWIW Monahan can too.

But in any event, I think the top six is comparable to most really good teams in the league. Three extremely high level guys, two really good ones and one competent one who fills a niche.

I think Calgary has the top six covered during the season, more or less on par with other decent teams.

The question remains whether those guys can elevate their play come playoff time. Because if they can't, and other players on other teams can, they won't be as effective.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think Calgary has the top six covered during the season, more or less on par with other decent teams.

The question remains whether those guys can elevate their play come playoff time. Because if they can't, and other players on other teams can, they won't be as effective.

True. I think that can come with experience, though. And the changes that are needed may be different for each guy. Monahan can up his intensity. Gaudreau
is almost the opposite - he can think thinks through better (IMO he tends to overdo his own play and one man it a lot in the POs especially when things aren't going well). Tkachuk needs to remember what got him there and not worry about penalties, etc.

[Enoch Root]

This notion that the Flames need another elite top 6 to win is ridiculous. Take a look at last year's cup winners...

Top forwards:
O'Reilly
Tarasenko
Schenn

is that better than Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk? I don't think so. Even if you concede that O'Reilly is better than Monahan (it's marginal), I would argue that Gaudreau is better than Tarasenko (again, close), and Tkachuk is easily better than Schenn.

Next 3:
Perron, Bozek, Schwartz, Steen? (debatable who they even are)

are they better than Lindholm, Backlund and <take your pick> Frolik? Bennett?

I don't see it. With the cap, not team is perfect, and having 6 top forwards is next to impossible. Five is really good.

STL won the cup with (IMO) 3 top forwards, maybe 4

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

True. I think that can come with experience, though. And the changes that are needed may be different for each guy. Monahan can up his intensity. Gaudreau

is almost the opposite - he can think thinks through better (IMO he tends to overdo his own play and one man it a lot in the POs especially when things aren't going well). Tkachuk needs to remember what got him there and not worry about penalties, etc.

Agreed. He was not good last year but we saw Monahan find another gear in the 2017 playoffs. I thought Tkachuk looked better last year than he did in his first playoff appearance, and last year was Lindholm’s first post-season. There is lots of room for improvement for all of these guys, but also good reasons to think that they can do it.


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