Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[EVERLAST]

so your world is small enough to keep digging huh?

Good for you.

[EVERLAST]

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

[jar_e]

I am so confused on what just happened in these last few posts. WTF.

[burn_this_city]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy

I realize this probably wont change EVERLAST'S mind, but its worth a read.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

What is there to debate? Burnthiscity just showed the wikipedia link and the first line is:

The thiomersal controversy describes claims that vaccines containing the mercury-based preservative thiomersal contribute to the development of autism and other brain development disorders.[1] The current scientific consensus is that no convincing scientific evidence supports these claims.[2][3]

So unless you have some scientific evidence, I find it hard to believe there is anything to debate.

[peter12]

I want EVERLAST to respond so badly, I've broken into a cold sweat.

[burn_this_city]

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/i...l.pbio.1000114

This article is about the gulf between science and what many parents believe.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

Are you actually talking about something called thermisol or do you mean Thimerosal (or thiomersal).

Thermisol seems to be a common internet misspelling of thimerosal or thiomersal and if you try to research thermisol on the internet you will get more confused than anything.

This is often the problem with this kind of debate. It's hard to take someone's position seriously when a basic element of the argument is being stated incorrectly. Thimerosal has already been discussed in this thread and there are numerous studies identifying that it has no relation to autism.

[Antithesis]

This thread is interesting and scary all at the same time.

[photon]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Isnt Photons son autistic? He doesnt seem to be offended by this discussion.

He has a disorder that is now classified on the autism spectrum, so I guess technically, but he's quite high functioning so the impact on us is less than on other families. But yeah I'm not offended by the discussion.

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

THREAD STARTER..... you feel especially important starting a controversial thread like this today BASED on your own experience!!!!!

Um, the thread starter started a thread about how a scam artist used their position to scam people for profit. Unless the original poster is Wakefield (the scammer), how is this based on their own experience?

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

I wont post again but this RUINED my day coming on here and reading this AS THE FATHER OF an Autistic ........

I greatly beg to differ.

INVOLVE A GREAT DEAL OF YOUR LIFE TO THE TOPIC AND BECOME SCIENTIFICALLY, MORALLY, PSYCHOLOGICALLY INVOLVED AND THEN COME TALK TO ME

How can the fact that vaccines don't cause autism ruin your day, as the father of an autistic child?

Bananas also do not cause autism, does that ruin your day? It doesn't ruin mine, it means I can keep enjoying bananas.

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

Science is a public discourse open to scrutiny and challenge. As soon as a conversation is private it can no longer be scrutinized and challenged. How can anyone know if your information is correct if it hasn't been publicly scrutinized and challenged by knowledgeable people? Trying to make a discussion private instantly makes me suspicious, because it's far easier to make emotional appeals and non-evidence based claims in a one-to-one interaction.

Plus if you are interested in education, reaching the most people possible is important.

[redforever]

March 2008 - Amid all of the very highly publicized concerns about vaccine safety from celebrities (Jenny McCarthy, Oprah, etc.) and the media and calls from some people for fewer vaccines and alternative immunization schedules, California quietly had a measles outbreak last month.

http://pediatrics.about.com/b/2008/03/18/california-measles-outbreak.htm

July, 2010 - outbreak of pertussis (whooping cough) in California highest in decades, resulted in death of 9 infants under 3 months of age.

http://blogs.forbes.com/sciencebiz/2...tion-movement/

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/paren...fornia-1828859

http://www.kqed.org/quest/blog/2010/...ne-exemptions/

I can't believe there is a debate about this.

All my kids were immunized and they didn't get autism. So I guess immunization also prevents autism?

See what I did there?

[puckluck]

Interesting read with more in the link


Apologies if this link has already been posted in this thread. Haven't read it all.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/290/13/1763.full


Context Mercuric compounds are nephrotoxic and neurotoxic at high doses. Thimerosal, a preservative used widely in vaccine formulations, contains ethylmercury. Thus it has been suggested that childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccine could be causally related to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism.
Objective To determine whether vaccination with a thimerosal-containing vaccine is associated with development of autism.
Design, Setting, and Participants Population-based cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1, 1990, until December 31, 1996 (N = 467 450) comparing children vaccinated with a thimerosal-containing vaccine with children vaccinated with a thimerosal-free formulation of the same vaccine.
Main Outcome Measures Rate ratio (RR) for autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders, including trend with dose of ethylmercury.
Results During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval {CI}, 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 µg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders).

Conclusion The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.

[Codes]

I got into this debate on YouTube of all places last year.

Although, I am not an immunologist, I do have some background in immunology, and vaccines have been an interest of mine for many years. It is incredibly frustrating to debate this topic with people who are completely uninterested in providing legitimate references (ie: recent peer-reviewed journal articles).

It has probably been mentioned (haven't read the whole debate), but ethylmercury, used in some vaccines, has shown to not bioaccumulate. This is in direct contrast with methylmercury, which does bioaccumulate, and is often consumed by humans if their diets consist of large fish (ie: tuna).

If we're so concerned about mercury, I think we've got some bigger fish to fry.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Codes

I got into this debate on YouTube of all places last year.

Although, I am not an immunologist, I do have some background in immunology, and vaccines have been an interest of mine for many years. It is incredibly frustrating to debate this topic with people who are completely uninterested in providing legitimate references (ie: recent peer-reviewed journal articles).

It has probably been mentioned (haven't read the whole debate), but ethylmercury, used in some vaccines, has shown to not bioaccumulate. This is in direct contrast with methylmercury, which does bioaccumulate, and is often consumed by humans if their diets consist of large fish (ie: tuna).

If we're so concerned about mercury, I think we've got some bigger fish to fry.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Can you provide evidence of a time where Thor didn't walk in lock step with scientific orthadoxy? Didn't think so.

Not that this is going to make a difference but... here goes anyway...

Sure, here's some examples

Originally Posted by Thor

Our Universe at Home Within a Larger Universe? So Suggests Physicist's Wormhole Research




Einstein-Rosen bridges like the one visualized above have never been observed in nature, but they provide theoretical physicists and cosmologists with solutions in general relativity by combining models of black holes and white holes. (Credit: Image courtesy of Indiana University)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0406172648.htm

Originally Posted by Thor

So who knows, 100-200 years for the nano age to revelutionize the world in some pretty amazing ways, and maybe space folding, wormhole travel 200-400 years?

We need a way to get there quickly without wasting 40 years for a round trip.

I don't think many people would consider wormholes 'orthodox' science. They haven't been observed or proven or anything, only theorized. Yet here he is talking about them...

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

PM'd

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Not that this is going to make a difference but... here goes anyway...

Sure, here's some examples


I don't think many people would consider wormholes 'orthodox' science. They haven't been observed or proven or anything, only theorized. Yet here he is talking about them...

Yeah but, I really loathe string theorists, in fact I have vowed jihad on them to which I will give my life in order to bomb them into the hell they obviously have come from in order to spread that vile theory.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

do some research on thermisol and live with the results

I dont jump to conclusions and ANYBODY wanna debate the TOPIC pm me direct and I will educate you......I dare you to make the TIME!!!!

I'd rather keep debates open. If you have any legitimate scientific information (i.e. properly conducted, peer-reviewed studies - not pseudo-science and nonsense from sites like Natural News, mercola.com, whale.to, Generation Rescue/Age of Autism, etc.) that thiomersal is harmful at the doses used in vaccines, please share it. However, as a toxicologist who had done quite a bit of work related to mercury I'm fairly familiar with the literature and am confident it is safe.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I'd rather keep debates open. If you have any legitimate scientific information (i.e. properly conducted, peer-reviewed studies - not pseudo-science and nonsense from sites like Natural News, mercola.com, whale.to, Generation Rescue/Age of Autism, etc.) that thiomersal is harmful at the doses used in vaccines, please share it. However, as a toxicologist who had done quite a bit of work related to mercury I'm fairly familiar with the literature and am confident it is safe.

but but, you might be in the pocket of big Pharma


It's a hard career to be in the public health field, especially when it comes to vaccinations. I know the original thread topic is about childhood vaccinations, but relately, there has been a definite decline in people getting their flu shots this year. Many are blaming it on blow black from last years "over hyped" avian flu fears

In public health, it seems if you everything went right, then people will come out saying the response was overblown. However, if something was missed and some unexpected outbreak of sorts happens, then the public will complain that we weren't prepared. Kudos to those in the field