It does. I would argue that her death perhaps gives the GOP more tools in the tool box. Status quo is good for the frontrunner (Biden) and any change in news gives the GOP more weapons. For example, McConnell pushing through a nominee next week will upset people that already are not voting for Trump. And it will really make Republicans happy, might turn out the vote more. So possibly a net gain. But let's say Collins blocks this. That could turn a close Senate race back in her favor, for doing the right thing. Or, what if McConnell nominates a female nominee. That could look good for some women who find these things important. The GOP have some decisions to make.
Considering how much money the Dems raised last night(~$35 million), the evidence suggests this is going to help them more. The GOP will be getting this justice one way or another, whether now or in the lame duck, so it seems the Dems know they need to win the senate if they want to expand the court or do the DC/PR thing to give them four locked in senate seats. But this is where the Trump path to winning is cheating, and if they have the votes on the SC to throw out a bunch of votes then it might not even matter who is more enthusiastic because of this.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I think you guys are focusing waaaaaaay too much on one throwaway description. Call them trash, jerks, selfish, awful, racist, bigoted, ignorant, hateful, uneducated, stupid etc
Or find nicer words. Doesn’t matter. Trump and the GOP are actively trying to erode freedom and equality. It’s a crisis. It’s going to make people angry. And that anger is going to be directed towards the people in power, the people who voted them in power, the people who keep voting so they stay in power and, yes, even the people who are apathetic and continually downplay the crisis because they don’t want to take sides.
Considering how much money the Dems raised last night(~$35 million), the evidence suggests this is going to help them more. The GOP will be getting this justice one way or another, whether now or in the lame duck, so it seems the Dems know they need to win the senate if they want to expand the court or do the DC/PR thing to give them four locked in senate seats. But this is where the Trump path to winning is cheating, and if they have the votes on the SC to throw out a bunch of votes then it might not even matter who is more enthusiastic because of this.
You may be right. However, the Dems have not viewed the courts as important. Is the 35 million a blip or is this an awakening?
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
You may be right. However, the Dems have not viewed the courts as important. Is the 35 million a blip or is this an awakening?
I think if anything any progressives who were considering third party or were maybe staying home are now going to come out in force, even if they hate Biden. As I said in the politics thread I think this actually helps both sides (many sides...) as it drives support for Biden, and offers Trump his clearest path to cheating.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
This is pew data from 2017, and I suspect if we found a similar poll today, the results would be even more extreme. Both sides think the other side is subhuman trash - because most people are highly susceptible to propaganda about the other side. This is especially true when combined with a general strong confirmation bias present in most people. In short: the average person takes much more extreme positions now than before. One unfortunate effect of this is that the average person in the Red Camp or the Blue Camp now views moderates as extremists because a moderate position is now also distant from their own. This is quite apparent in this thread (and I would say in this forum in general, which is very left/democrat/progressive).
Is it "propaganda" about the right to just...watch what they do and listen to what they say?
McConnell openly held open a SCOTUS seat for nearly a calendar year because he wanted a Republican president to fill it. Only to now alter course to rush and fill another for political gain.. He has gloated about not bringing legislation to a vote because he doesn't like said legislation.
Trump has said the quiet parts out loud.
Many Republicans have flat out said they want to repeal Roe v Wade.
It's not propaganda if they're explicitly saying these things.
The GOP has moved dramatically farther to the right and their clan has followed them. They're at a race to see how far to the right they can get, and they win at it because all those "moderates" vote right along with them.
The "left" has far more nuance, from Clinton/Biden at center-left and then AOC/Bernie farther to the left, which is what helps the GOP win, because there is nuance and difference of opinion, but if the right keeps sliding toward authoritarianism, of course the divide will continue to deepen. Even those in the center-left have no stomach for some of the harrowing things the GOP has let slide.
Last edited by wittynickname; 09-19-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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I think if anything any progressives who were considering third party or were maybe staying home are now going to come out in force, even if they hate Biden. As I said in the politics thread I think this actually helps both sides (many sides...) as it drives support for Biden, and offers Trump his clearest path to cheating.
I'm not sure it's enough. If they weren't coming out because "FOUR MORE YEARS TRUMP" then I don't know if this changes anything. Plus even if they got a President Biden, he's not picking progressive justice for the SC. Again, using the analogy of the SC as a seesaw, the GOP are putting elephants on their side of the seesaw. The Democrats (Obama) put humans on the center of the seesaw. RBG was the most progressive person on the SC and she's now gone.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Is it "propaganda" about the right to just...watch what they do and listen to what they say?
McConnell openly held open a SCOTUS seat for nearly a calendar year because he wanted a Republican president to fill it. Only to now alter course to rush and fill another for political gain.. He has gloated about not bringing legislation to a vote because he doesn't like said legislation.
Trump has said the quiet parts out loud.
Many Republicans have flat out said they want to repeal Roe v Wade.
It's not propaganda if they're explicitly saying these things.
The GOP has moved dramatically farther to the right and their clan has followed them. They're at a race to see how far to the right they can get, and they win at it because all those "moderates" vote right along with them.
The "left" has far more nuance, from Clinton/Biden at center-left and then AOC/Bernie farther to the left, which is what helps the GOP win, because there is nuance and difference of opinion, but if the right keeps sliding toward authoritarianism, of course the divide will continue to deepen. Even those in the center-left have no stomach for some of the harrowing things the GOP has let slide.
Witty is absolutely right here. Republicans believe what they believe in. It's not rhetoric, it's not brainwashing. They believe it and more importantly, they fight for it.
Elephants on their side of the seesaw.
It probably feels, at this point, that the Supreme Court, the institution itself is tainted and inherently conservative, right? Since it seems to be the place where all kinds of interesting proposals go to die or have near-death experiences, like Obamacare, right. Why?
I think part of it is a failure of how Democrats, establishment Democrats, view the institution of the Supreme Court. Obama was wrong on the courts. If you look at just the kinds of people that he appointed, Obama saw the courts as an institution above the political fray. Republicans see the court as the politicized institution right in the middle of the muck and they nominate judges and justices who will do that work. So of course Republicans nominate culture warrior, alleged attempted rapist Brett Kavanaugh and ideologues like Neil Gorsuch. And Obama nominates Kagan and Sotomayor who institutionalists and not progressive bomb-throwers.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an absolute legend. She fought hard for people . She was discriminated agist so many times because she was a woman so she knew first hand discrimination was damaging. She graduated #1 in her class at harvard law school and applied to be a clerk for the supreme court and was denied because she was a woman. She had to hide her pregnancy at her lower position job because back then it was ok to fire a woman for pregnancy.
She fought for abortion rights,civil rights for African Americans, fought for equal rights for woman, she fought for the poor, fought for gay rights , voting rights and so much more.
This is absolutely devastating loss for the states. The dems can't let Trump fill this position otherwise it will be 6-3 in the court. They can kiss their rights goodbye.
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The issue is, as touched on in that talk, is that this is actually our natural state as human beings. Attempting not to be divided in this manner is fighting against our base instincts. It's an uphill struggle, and more and more people aren't really willing to spend the energy to try to fight against those instincts.
You just called Obama voters trash. Fact: many swing voters that voted for Obama twice (I know several) voted for Trump. A small percentage of African American's (8%) voted Trump, a fairly large % of Hispanics (28%) voted Trump. Are they all trash as well? 27% of Asians voted Trump. All trash, right?
White people don't have a monopoly on trash. Trashy people come in all colours.
We knew a lot of things about Trump before anyone voted for him. He said so many racist and misogynist things before and during his campaign. If someone was able to put those things aside, hold their nose, and vote for him because they thought their individual position would improve even if it meant other people would suffer... then yeah, those people are trash IMO.
Since we are on that topic now, even in Hitler's Germany, there were Jews that supported Hitler prior to the outbreak of WW2. They felt that they were better than Eastern European Jewish immigrants and saw Hitler as a means to stop them, or even remove them. That obviously backfired on them. I have no problem lumping them into the same trash that supported Hitler for whatever reason.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I'm not the one making things partisan. I'm taking a stand for reading comprehension.
Matata wrote this:
According to what Matata wrote, are Nazis the worst? Yes.
Are the KKK the worst? Yes.
Should this be an easy statement to agree with if you value equality and democracy? Yes.
Are people who are implying that Matata's statement shows him to be the equivalent of a Nazi or KKK sympathizer or appeaser attacking him over something he didn't write in that post? Yes.
Re-read what Matata wrote in that post and think again if it's worth getting the pitchforks out over.
Well then maybe you should take your own advice and work on your reading comprehension
So which people is Matata talking about? He didn’t quote anyone and just made a general statement but it sure seemed directed at anyone calling Trump and the GOP trash.
That’s pretty dumb. Especially since he made accusations of being worse than Trump and the GOP.
So I don’t have a side, I’m not a Dem or Rep, but I do believe that Trump supporters (Republicans) are bad. And opposing Trump is good. I like equality and democracy. But that makes me worse than Trump and the Republicans because I’m ####ing standing up for protecting rights, freedom, equality and admonishing violence, racism, bigotry and hate. If you can’t figure out the right ####ing side then you’re goddamn right I’m gonna be straightforward about it to help you figure it out. I’m calling a spade a spade and I don’t give a #### about empty platitudes like “you’ll catch more flies with honey.” We’re so far past that. I don’t need to nudge people who support a wannabe dictator that maybe we should find a friendlier way to find middle ground. They need to be stopped and if it takes shaming people to get them to stand up for what’s right, go somewhere else for your apology because you’re not gonna find one here. I’m not afraid of making the division bigger or radicalizing them because they’re the ones who created that divide because they’re already radicalized. That’s the goddamn point!
No one anywhere ever should defend Trump, McConnell and the GOP from any insult that comes their way. Like I said before, grow a spine and stand up for what’s right.
Next you’ll be defending China’s human rights record when I call them trash for conducting a ####ing modern day genocide.
But I’m worse than Trump because I’m calling terrible humans terrible?
Think about how insanely stupid it is to think that, let alone type it. Scarier still, a bunch of people agreed with him. It’s frightening.
Is it possible Matata is so jaded by politics that he/she has lost all sight of right and wrong and can’t distinguish a wannabe dictator from the people opposing him?
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 09-19-2020 at 05:18 PM.
What we can learn from the justices, though — beyond how to be a friend — is how to welcome debate and differences. The two justices had central roles in addressing some of the most divisive issues of the day, including cases on abortion, same-sex marriage and who would be president. Not for a moment did one think the other should be condemned or ostracized. More than that, they believed that what they were doing — arriving at their own opinions thoughtfully and advancing them vigorously — was essential to the national good. With less debate, their friendship would have been diminished, and so, they believed, would our democracy.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Is it "propaganda" about the right to just...watch what they do and listen to what they say?
McConnell openly held open a SCOTUS seat for nearly a calendar year because he wanted a Republican president to fill it. Only to now alter course to rush and fill another for political gain.. He has gloated about not bringing legislation to a vote because he doesn't like said legislation.
Trump has said the quiet parts out loud.
Many Republicans have flat out said they want to repeal Roe v Wade.
It's not propaganda if they're explicitly saying these things.
The GOP has moved dramatically farther to the right and their clan has followed them. They're at a race to see how far to the right they can get, and they win at it because all those "moderates" vote right along with them.
The "left" has far more nuance, from Clinton/Biden at center-left and then AOC/Bernie farther to the left, which is what helps the GOP win, because there is nuance and difference of opinion, but if the right keeps sliding toward authoritarianism, of course the divide will continue to deepen. Even those in the center-left have no stomach for some of the harrowing things the GOP has let slide.
I don't disagree with the fact that the right has moved more to the right. But the left has moved more to the left.
There is a bigger gap in the middle. And both sides think moderates are "extreme", which of course is a failure.
As for the SCOTUS nomination - Obama and Biden have both wanted to install justices in the final year of a presidency. The hypocrisy goes both ways.
I don't disagree with the fact that the right has moved more to the right. But the left has moved more to the left.
There is a bigger gap in the middle. And both sides think moderates are "extreme", which of course is a failure.
As for the SCOTUS nomination - Obama and Biden have both wanted to install justices in the final year of a presidency. The hypocrisy goes both ways.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to fill the seat in an election year, so in isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Republicans wanting to do it right now.
But the same Republicans are the ones who opposed it last time. They set that standard, one that didn't exist before, so it isn't hypocrisy if the Dems now want to hold them to that standard and deny them what they were denied in 2016.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 09-19-2020 at 07:03 PM.
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There is nothing wrong with want to fill the seat in an election year, so in isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Republicans wanting to do it right now.
But the same Republicans are the ones who opposed it last time. They set that standard, one that didn't exist before, so it isn't hypocrisy if the Dems now want to hold them to that standard and deny them what they were denied in 2016.
Both sides are guilty of the same thing: doing what is in their best interest in the situation. The Dems would (and have) done the reverse of their current claims. So ahve the GOP.
Hypocrisy on both sides
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