[Signing] Flames re-sign Lazar (2 yrs, $950k AAV)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by wireframe

I'm excited to see what Lazar can do. I'm not expecting much because there isn't anything new in Calgary that wasn't in Ottowa. There is no reason that he should be able to put it together here when he couldn't there. I know, he had mono and was rushed in too young. So there is a chance that he will step up now that he is a little older. Either way, it's a very low-risk signing and trade.

The bolded sentences kind of contradict each other, no?

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The bolded sentences kind of contradict each other, no?

In a way they do. I'm saying that I'm not totally sure that being healthy is going to make a huge difference. It could be that he isn't a good nhl player and being sick further limit his already weak play.

Although it could also be that he's incredible and sickness kept him back. Like I said, low risk signing that is easy to get behind

[jayswin]

All past incidents seem to indicate that mono all but writes off a professional sports season. I still have high hopes for him.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by jayswin

All past incidents seem to indicate that mono all but writes off a professional sports season. I still have high hopes for him.

Mono really takes the stuffing out of you.

Personally I'm surprised he played any NHL games in the same season he had mono. The illness really drains on your energy and your weight.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by wireframe

I'm excited to see what Lazar can do. I'm not expecting much because there isn't anything new in Calgary that wasn't in Ottowa. There is no reason that he should be able to put it together here when he couldn't there. I know, he had mono and was rushed in too young. So there is a chance that he will step up now that he is a little older. Either way, it's a very low-risk signing and trade.

Guy Boucher plays a passive trap game that is quite different from Glen Gulutzan's puck possession attack. The Senators were the lowest scoring team to make the playoffs last year.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Guy Boucher plays a passive trap game that is quite different from Glen Gulutzan's puck possession attack. The Senators were the lowest scoring team to make the playoffs last year.

Great point. So there is a pretty good chance that Lazar will score more this year. It was almost impossible to score less but the system and health are going to factor in.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Mono really takes the stuffing out of you.

Personally I'm surprised he played any NHL games in the same season he had mono. The illness really drains on your energy and your weight.

agreed....my son had it and he didn't regain his strength for 6 months.

[JohnnyTitan]

Meanwhile - Alex Formenton was not invited to Canada's Summer World Junior Development Camp.

I know he doesn't turn 18 until Sept...but I just want to keep everyone updated on the player who Ottawa took with Calgary's pick in the 2nd round. There was a lot (way too much!) backlash over trading that pick for Lazar in my opinion. So I'll keep watching Formenton on behalf of all of you! ;-)

Love you Curtis!

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

Meanwhile - Alex Formenton was not invited to Canada's Summer World Junior Development Camp.

I know he doesn't turn 18 until Sept...but I just want to keep everyone updated on the player who Ottawa took with Calgary's pick in the 2nd round. There was a lot (way too much!) backlash over trading that pick for Lazar in my opinion. So I'll keep watching Formenton on behalf of all of you! ;-)

Love you Curtis!

Backlash from flames fans?

[Anduril]

Seems like such a strange practice to compare the player selected with the pick that was given in a trade when there's zero guarantee that the Flames would have selected the same player, went through the same development and given the same opportunities.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Seems like such a strange practice to compare the player selected with the pick that was given in a trade when there's zero guarantee that the Flames would have selected the same player, went through the same development and given the same opportunities.

This is correct.

Whether this player turns out to be great or crappy doesn't affect he trade value.

A 2nd round's value is based on what it is, not on what another team does with it.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

This is correct.

Whether this player turns out to be great or crappy doesn't affect the trade value.

A 2nd round's value is based on what it is, not on what another team does with it.

Since there is no way of knowing who the flames would have taken with the pick, the player Ottowa took is the best approximation we have. There is no defined value for a generic second round pick. So the best thing we can compare Lazar to when evaluating the trade is the player who was taken with that second round pick. Yes, it's not perfect because the Flames may have taken someone different, but it's probably close enough.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by wireframe

Since there is no way of knowing who the flames would have taken with the pick, the player Ottowa took is the best approximation we have. There is no defined value for a generic second round pick. So the best thing we can compare Lazar to when evaluating the trade is the player who was taken with that second round pick. Yes, it's not perfect because the Flames may have taken someone different, but it's probably close enough.

But suggesting it s good trade because the pick flames out, or a bad trade if the picked player does well, makes zero sense.

A 2nd round pick has a certain value. Let's leave it at that and not compare a player the Flames likely would not have picked.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But suggesting it s good trade because the pick flames out, or a bad trade if the picked player does well, makes zero sense.

A 2nd round pick has a certain value. Let's leave it at that and not compare a player the Flames likely would not have picked.

But it does make sense to compare the player picked if you assume that teams have similar lists, which is a fair assumption early in the draft. A second round pick can't have a set value because each draft if unique.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by wireframe

But it does make sense to compare the player picked if you assume that teams have similar lists, which is a fair assumption early in the draft. A second round pick can't have a set value because each draft if unique.

If youre going to do that then take the pick + 5 or so picks around that player.
See how 5-6 players are doing, suggesting flames couldve picked one of those guys.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

If youre going to do that then take the pick + 5 or so picks around that player.
See how 5-6 players are doing, suggesting flames couldve picked one of those guys.

Yes. That makes sense to me. As long as you don't assume that the Flames will always pick the best player out of any group of 5.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by wireframe

But it does make sense to compare the player picked if you assume that teams have similar lists, which is a fair assumption early in the draft. A second round pick can't have a set value because each draft if unique.

By the time you get to the middle of the first round, lists vary greatly.

I doubt the Flames had better than a 15% chance of picking the same guy.

A second round pick in a certain draft has that value based on the strength of that draft. It's not like you don't know what draft you've traded a pick in.

And the value of drafts tend to differ more at the top end. Once you get into the 2nd round, most drafts are pretty much the same.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Where is all this potential people are talking about with Lazar? Is it because he smiles a lot and we remember him from a WJHC tournament that often never translates to NHL success? The guy was never slotted to be anything other than a bottom 6 player, mono or not.

Is this a decent contract with little risk and some potential upside? Yup, I agree with that. When you factor in we gave up a 2nd round pick for it, that's where the shine definitely comes off. Bottom 6 players are easily had, and can easily be filled by someone from the farm at the same or cheaper price. I don't think you use a 2nd round pick for depth unless it's at the trade deadline, you are a in a position to win now, and the player you are getting back is a proven commodity.

I give Treliving a great deal of credit, but this is not a deal I can ever get behind. Hopefully Lazar proves me wrong and lights it up, but I don't that's going to be the case. We bought far too high on Lazar in my opinion. Probably going to be another Shinkaruk. Recognizable name, who really isn't going to ever live up to it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Where is all this potential people are talking about with Lazar? Is it because he smiles a lot and we remember him from a WJHC tournament that often never translates to NHL success? The guy was never slotted to be anything other than a bottom 6 player, mono or not.

Is this a decent contract with little risk and some potential upside? Yup, I agree with that. When you factor in we gave up a 2nd round pick for it, that's where the shine definitely comes off. Bottom 6 players are easily had, and can easily be filled by someone from the farm at the same or cheaper price. I don't think you use a 2nd round pick for depth unless it's at the trade deadline, you are a in a position to win now, and the player you are getting back is a proven commodity.

I give Treliving a great deal of credit, but this is not a deal I can ever get behind. Hopefully Lazar proves me wrong and lights it up, but I don't that's going to be the case. We bought far too high on Lazar in my opinion. Probably going to be another Shinkaruk. Recognizable name, who really isn't going to ever live up to it.

Drafted 17th in a pretty deep 2013 likely means he has a bit more upside than you suggest. Even if he is destined as a bottom 6, it isn't "easy" to find good bottom 6 players. I don't know the exact stats, but I think it is something like 85% of second rounders wouldn't get that far in the NHL.

I do agree that this isn't really that big a deal, but I do think it is a decent one. He doesn't need to light it up for it to be a positive for the Flames.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by wireframe

But it does make sense to compare the player picked if you assume that teams have similar lists, which is a fair assumption early in the draft. A second round pick can't have a set value because each draft if unique.

Teams do not have similar lists early in the draft so that would be a bad assumption to make. I agree with the previous poster, should look at a 2nd rounder as a commodity worth what 2nd rounders are typically traded for.