Tracking the anti-LBGTQ+ movement

[flames_fan_down_under]

Aren't cruise ships a hot bed for middle-America types?

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Ahhh yes, those folks from Texas, Tennessee, and Mississippi I chat with are obviously lying and from New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Silly me, my bad.

There are ####ty people everywhere, people like to think their hometown is better than the rest of the country/NA, rarely is it.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

There are ####ty people everywhere, people like to think their hometown is better than the rest of the country/NA, rarely is it.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly.

Lots of great people from the redneckiest of places, and complete and utter human excriment from the greatest places on Earth.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I sometimes wonder what cruise ship passengers from rural US think when they get off the ship in Canada to explore the local area to find pride flags, and trans flags and notices on shop doors and window saying everyone is welcome.

Must be a culture shock for sure.

Me and the wife drove through Tennessee this past June. There were tons of pride flags and stickers on peoples vehicles. I was honestly quite surprised. We also attended the pride parade that marched up Beale Street in Memphis.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Ahhh yes, those folks from Texas, Tennessee, and Mississippi I chat with are obviously lying and from New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Silly me, my bad.

Eldrick might have a valid point though.

Apparently the numbers are a couple percentage points higher now (45% of Americans had a passport in 2022), but the most religious and anti-LGBT states have incredibly low numbers of passport holders. The US, as a whole, has the lowest percentage of passport holders compared to the rest of the developed world (except Australia)

https://www.businessinsider.com/pass...y-state-2014-3

Middle America and middle-aged Americans (40-65 years old) don't really travel outside of the US, especially compared with that same demographic in Canada and the EU.

I'd imagine that people from middle America would be genuinely shocked to walk around Victoria, Vancouver, Halifax, or St. Johns while on a cruise and see how common pride crosswalks, pride flags, and pride stickers on storefronts are.

I say that out of ignorance though because I've never been to middle America and have no desire to visit there (except Illinois/Chicago)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Eldrick might have a valid point though.

Apparently the numbers are a couple percentage points higher now (45% of Americans had a passport in 2022), but the most religious and anti-LGBT states have incredibly low numbers of passport holders. The US, as a whole, has the lowest percentage of passport holders compared to the rest of the developed world (except Australia)

https://www.businessinsider.com/pass...y-state-2014-3

Middle America and middle-aged Americans (40-65 years old) don't really travel outside of the US, especially compared with that same demographic in Canada and the EU.

I'd imagine that people from middle America would be genuinely shocked to walk around Victoria, Vancouver, Halifax, or St. Johns while on a cruise and see how common pride crosswalks, pride flags, and pride stickers on storefronts are.

I say that out of ignorance though because I've never been to middle America and have no desire to visit there (except Illinois/Chicago)

Well I can tell you that when my wife and I were in Chicago we had an interesting experience.

We were killing some time trying to let traffic die down after a Cubs game and decided to just duck into a bar, have a couple drinks, kill some time and then try and get a Cab.

It turned out to be a homosexual bar.

We ended up chatting with this very nice Gay couple and they were telling us that this was the 'Homosexual Sector' of Chicago.

I made an off-hand comment of something like..."huh, we don't have that really in Calgary."

"Well! Where do your homosexuals live then??"

"Uh. Wherever they want?"

To them that was an alien concept.

[jayswin]

I don't know if I've ever heard a gay person refer themselves or their group as homosexuals. Everything I've heard points to it being an outdated, offensive term.

When referring to people, homosexual is considered derogatory and the terms gay and lesbian are preferred.

[jayswin]

Obviously not suggesting that you meant it as such, just that you may be outdated in community terms.

[White Out 403]

homosexual is an offensive term now? is there a google doc somewhere so we can keep track of these endlessly shifting targets?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

homosexual is an offensive term now? is there a google doc somewhere so we can keep track of these endlessly shifting targets?

Oh poor you.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Obviously not suggesting that you meant it as such, just that you may be outdated in community terms.

Evidently I am. Conversely I thought that was the most respectful term and incorporated many groups and iterations.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well I can tell you that when my wife and I were in Chicago we had an interesting experience.

We were killing some time trying to let traffic die down after a Cubs game and decided to just duck into a bar, have a couple drinks, kill some time and then try and get a Cab.

It turned out to be a homosexual bar.

We ended up chatting with this very nice Gay couple and they were telling us that this was the 'Homosexual Sector' of Chicago.

I made an off-hand comment of something like..."huh, we don't have that really in Calgary."

"Well! Where do your homosexuals live then??"

"Uh. Wherever they want?"

To them that was an alien concept.

Was this in the 50s?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I agree. I think she’s an example of the outlier and good evidence of why blanket legislation doesn’t make any sense. Assigned female at birth, identifies as a woman, but has certain conditions that would (in theory) make her the exact type of “unfair” competition the “no trans women” argument is trying to exclude, but would not be excluded based solely on the fact that she was born as and still identifies as a woman. It’s an example that makes it extremely arbitrary.



Don’t be silly, we’re not internet friends off (or even in danger of it) just because I’m frustrated with your perspective on this. I do want to change your mind because I think you are able to see things from another perspective, I’m just frustrated as to why you aren’t.

I don’t even think we’re far apart, I guess I’m just asking you to consider a more nuanced or case by case outlook on this?

Let’s put it this way, using your terms, considering the article I shared. There are differences between men and women. Biological males, on average, have an advantage in some athletic activities because of those differences. Biological women, on average, have an advantage in different athletic activities because of those differences. Within that, there is a great deal of variation. Some people who were born and still identify as women have conditions that make them more similar in their physiological makeup to what we would traditionally associate with biological men, and vice versa.

The argument isn’t that there aren’t differences. It’s that some of those same differences, especially the ones that confer an advantage in different sports, also exist within the spectrum of those assigned the same sex at birth.

Given those variations and conditions, do you think excluding “trans women” based solely on the fact that they’re trans (while not excluding trans men, I guess, who also have those advantages), makes sense? Or would you agree that taking a more nuanced approach that actually evaluates whether specific trans athletes (and cis athletes for that matter) have those “unfair” biological advantages and make individual decisions based on those evaluations makes more sense?

Okay, been thinking about everything.

Couple things...I think you guys are right and I was wrong that government intervention is needed to solidify any rules, bans, etc.

I guess that leaves things up to individual sports bodies to evaluate and impose rules around. It's not like we need government to make rules around age groups allowed to participate in U8 soccer or something...we let the sports organizations do that. Let's see them approach this as well and it'll likely be fine.

Do I think a trans woman is a woman? No, I still don't, but I don't think what I think is particularly relevant on that. I certainly respect any person enough to treat them as a woman if they identify as a woman and I don't do that with a roll of the eyes or anything. I am genuinely supportive of somebody identifying as a woman being treated as a woman.

As for the advantage a person born as male may or may not have competing against biological females
..it seems like a giant pita to evaluate on a individual case-by-case basis and puts a lot of pressure on volunteers just trying to run sports leagues. I guess at the end of the day that's not my problem, but as somebody who runs an organization where you have to juggle multiple people with overlapping and conflicting interests, sure seems like a hassle I wouldn't want so I do empathize with the people tasked with sorting that out in their respective roles. Hopefully we end up with people running these sports that are equipped to be fair and understanding and it now appears that'll just be part of the role and if you can't manage it somebody else should take your place.

I've lost track if there was anything else on this I was supposed to be thinking about, but I do care enough to continue being mindful of best approaches.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Eldrick might have a valid point though.

Apparently the numbers are a couple percentage points higher now (45% of Americans had a passport in 2022), but the most religious and anti-LGBT states have incredibly low numbers of passport holders. The US, as a whole, has the lowest percentage of passport holders compared to the rest of the developed world (except Australia)

https://www.businessinsider.com/pass...y-state-2014-3

Middle America and middle-aged Americans (40-65 years old) don't really travel outside of the US, especially compared with that same demographic in Canada and the EU.

I'd imagine that people from middle America would be genuinely shocked to walk around Victoria, Vancouver, Halifax, or St. Johns while on a cruise and see how common pride crosswalks, pride flags, and pride stickers on storefronts are.

I say that out of ignorance though because I've never been to middle America and have no desire to visit there (except Illinois/Chicago)

Americans generally don't need a passport to take a cruise for this exact reason.

[fotze2]

Mods need to change lockes location to “A homosexual bar”.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Mods need to change lockes location to “A homosexual bar”.

Or someone needs to make a homosexual bar called "Income Tax Central". Whichever is easier, I guess.

[Fuzz]

Pope Francis on Friday warned of the dangers of gender theory, saying he had commissioned studies into what he condemned as an "ugly ideology" that threatens humanity.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-f...130679?cmp=rss


Oh #### off you old coot. This isn't going to help. Whatever happened to that compassion thing Jesus told you about? Maybe preach that for a change?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I am sure the “study” will be a very scientific and unbiased review of an “ugly ideology”.
Lol. Why bother, just say god told you they are bad.

[Fuzz]

Well OK, let's see what their books have to say, since man was created in the image of god.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) #239 states, in reference to the Father: "God transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender...n_Christianity



Huh, will you look at that. Ugly! But it seems that God's preferred pronoun is still "he". This gender stuff is so confusing!

[powderjunkie]

It looks like Drumheller will decide if they are too pathetic to endure a rainbow crosswalk in their town on Monday.