Colten Bushie murder trial

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not a "gun guy" so pardon my ignorance, but on the radio a few minutes ago, they were saying he wasn't sure how many bullets he had loaded. He fired two warning shots and then fired a third and the gun didn't go off. He took the clip out and after that he pointed it at Boushies head and it went off. I don't know if that's accurate, but that's the chronology given by Rob Breakenridge a few minutes ago. Does that change things, in your view? I have to say that it does in mine. If he pulled the trigger and nothing happened, and he took the clip out, he obviously didn't plan on killing this guy?

What's the basis for that chronology though? From what I understand the only person who can attest to what happened with the gun is the defendant, who obviously has a huge motivation to keep himself out of prison. Can you really take a defendant's defense of himself at face value and treat it as the truth?

Perhaps it happened exactly as he says and it was a freak accident. But without any witnesses to corroborate that, anything could've happened and we'd never know. He could've just as easily deliberately shot him in the head and made up the story about removing the clip and the gun going off by accident in order to cover himself.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

Nope.

I'm not sure of the action on that handgun, but if he didn't pull the receiver back and personally check inside, the gun should be considered loaded. Whether there is a clip in or not, without checking there could be a bullet in a position where it could be fired and should have been considered lethal.

That was part of the practical exam in my FAC course and I would have failed if I ever took a gun and didn't check, and I would have failed if the muzzle was ever pointed at anyone. Stanley failed on both counts and someone died.

All these "my PAL course taught me xyz" posts are hilarious. You're comparing a classroom situation where the biggest threat is a paper cut to being in the middle of a life or death situation and expecting someone's actions to be identical between the two.

And I wouldn't hold up the PAL course as the be all to end all on gun safety, it's the same course that tells students to look down the barrel of the gun they are proving safe.

Originally Posted by opendoor

What's the basis for that chronology though? From what I understand the only person who can attest to what happened with the gun is the defendant, who obviously has a huge motivation to keep himself out of prison. Can you really take a defendant's defense of himself at face value and treat it as the truth?

Perhaps it happened exactly as he says and it was a freak accident. But without any witnesses to corroborate that, anything could've happened and we'd never know. He could've just as easily deliberately shot him in the head and made up the story about removing the clip and the gun going off by accident in order to cover himself.

The physical evidence shows there was a malfunction of some type while Stanley was by the SUV window, the bulged casing inside the vent. The RCMP expert also testified that he experienced malfunctions while testing it.

At the end of the day though, it is not the defendant's burden to prove his innocence, it is the Crown's burden to prove guilt.

[GGG]

I think that if the prosecution went for a manslaughter charge and didn't call any witnesses they could have convicted quite easily on the physical evidence.

The RCMP's treatment of the Bouchie family depending on what you believe in the investigation of the complaint does not sound like them doing their job respectfully.

I think the RCMP / Prosecution screwed up here. I agree that based on what I have read given the case that was presented the conflicting testimony made it difficult to convict even on the lesser manslaughter charge.

The court overall appears to have done its job.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Not really comparable at all. It wasn't just the mere act of trespassing on private property where peoples sympathies depart. Were they trying to steal vehicles from COP? Were they driving a motor vehicle while being 3-4 times more intoxicated than the legal limit? Had they also tried to steal from other properties adjacent to COP? Did they have a weapon on board their truck? Did they get into an altercation with people while they were on the COP property?

I don’t think anyone is defending those clearly criminal activities. However, it seems (and this may just be miscommunication in some instances) that some posters believe that this criminal activity provides justification for Mr. Boushie’s death. I don’t think that it does. I think (or at least hope) that most people in Saskatchewan don’t think that it does. Mr. Stanley’s defence did not argue that it does.

[icecube]

Would a white family be treated the same way Colten Boushie's family was treated the day he was killed? I think the only honest answer is probably not...

RCMP showed 'racist' attitude toward Colten Boushie's family, lawyer says

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/saska...ly-lawyer-says

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don’t think anyone is defending those clearly criminal activities. However, it seems (and this may just be miscommunication in some instances) that some posters believe that this criminal activity provides justification for Mr. Boushie’s death. I don’t think that it does. I think (or at least hope) that most people in Saskatchewan don’t think that it does. Mr. Stanley’s defence did not argue that it does.

I don’t think people here think his activities justify his death at all. But I also don’t think they are totally ignored when evaluating the whole situation.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Dont disagree that Stanley failed as described but these events did unfold in a classroom . This was a potential life and death situation where a car load of people rolled onto his property driving a vehicle with a flat tire trying to steal and drive into things. They didnt come and knock on his door politely and he over reacted by pulling a gun. The situation could have been very frightening for him and his family. I can see how he could have lost track of how many shots he had fired under the pressure of the situation. I think things may have been chaotic in the moments leading up to the shooting.

That's why you have to check for a chambered bullet and you never point the muzzle at anything you don't mean to shoot if the action is closed. You might forget and accidents happen (like mine that I described before).

In my opinion, he was negligent on two counts and negligence causing unintentional death is manslaughter.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I don’t think people here think his activities justify his death at all. But I also don’t think they are totally ignored when evaluating the whole situation.

Fair enough. As I said most of it is probably miscommunication (on both “sides”). Except Inguess for Pylon who, to his credit, was very clear about his position. But I think that position is very much in the minority in Canada.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

All these "my PAL course taught me xyz" posts are hilarious. You're comparing a classroom situation where the biggest threat is a paper cut to being in the middle of a life or death situation and expecting someone's actions to be identical between the two.

And I wouldn't hold up the PAL course as the be all to end all on gun safety, it's the same course that tells students to look down the barrel of the gun they are proving safe.

I wouldn't call the course perfect - nothing is. Lots of people pass who should fail.

I know that every time I pick up a gun, I check to see if it is loaded or not, and that I never point the muzzle at or near anyone (or myself), unless the action is open (i.e. when cleaning or checking to see if it needs cleaning). It's fundamental safety that was drilled into me from the first time I shot a BB gun as a kid, and that is automatic for me. Stanley knew this as well or should have and was negligent.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

I wouldn't call the course perfect - nothing is. Lots of people pass who should fail.

When I took my PAL course, nobody failed, including a few that should have. They were coached through what they needed to do. The paid their money and they were going to walk away with a pass.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by meritmat

Go live beside a reserve and see how quickly your compassion and empathy go out the window, theft and break-ins are very very common. I honesty don't blame the 5 youths. I blame the parents. Teach your kids respect for the law and your fellow man and stop trying to blame the White man for all your problems.

Brutal

Originally Posted by icecube

Or... Blame colonization and a hundred plus years of failed racist assimilation policies by the government. Don't kid yourself. You'd be no different if you had all that stacked against you. They don't lack a resiliency gene and aren't inherently lazy. It's harder than you think to pull yourself out of a mess like that.

Exactly

[Bownesian]

My dad and his retired police inspector buddy taught the course for years.

The one automatic fail was to lose track of the muzzle, even once, in a room that was known to have no live ammunition present. I have no idea what other classes are like, but I know that *we* weren't coached in the exam and I know they failed people over the years.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by icecube

A lot of that money was given by racist people. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Who is willing to admit it though?

I donated to his fund, heres why

He did not get up that morning figuring, I'm going to murder a Native, he was out minding his business doing a days work.

I have no idea what his defensive costed, but I would assume 10's of thousands of dollars, maybe 100's of thousands.

I (heard) his home 1/4 is listed for sale. So what ever has happened this man has been forced to sell his home or in the process of, he can never go back. I don't know how long he homesteaded there but its common for some familys to have over 100 year old farms (3 or 4 generations) All gone in a blink of an eye. The family has to move, just drop everthing, friends family you name it. All the man was doing was protecting his home.

When we go to bed at night, I don't lock my truck. Keys are in it, if somebody comes into my yard, take it. Even if I see them, I'm not going to try to stop them, its insured. But if your armed or if your trying to get into my house all bets are off

Two familys lives were forever changed that day but only one of them is getting destroyed in the press.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by meritmat

I donated to his fund, heres why

He did not get up that morning figuring, I'm going to murder a Native, he was out minding his business doing a days work.

I have no idea what his defensive costed, but I would assume 10's of thousands of dollars, maybe 100's of thousands.

I (heard) his home 1/4 is listed for sale. So what ever has happened this man has been forced to sell his home or in the process of, he can never go back. I don't know how long he homesteaded there but its common for some familys to have over 100 year old farms (3 or 4 generations) All gone in a blink of an eye. The family has to move, just drop everthing, friends family you name it. All the man was doing was protecting his home.

When we go to bed at night, I don't lock my truck. Keys are in it, if somebody comes into my yard, take it. Even if I see them, I'm not going to try to stop them, its insured. But if your armed or if your trying to get into my house all bets are off

Two familys lives were forever changed that day but only one of them is getting destroyed in the press.

Fair enough. Do you plan on donating any money to the Boushie families gofundme? They lost the life of their son after all not just some property.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by icecube

Would a white family be treated the same way Colten Boushie's family was treated the day he was killed? I think the only honest answer is probably not...

RCMP showed 'racist' attitude toward Colten Boushie's family, lawyer says

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/saska...ly-lawyer-says

It could be because of past history. His Uncle was convicted of a double murder


https://www.producer.com/1994/11/mur...ects-in-court/

[burn_this_city]

Nice family, reminds me of that pair in Calgary recently where the son was convicted of murder and the dad just got charged with attempted murder.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by icecube

Fair enough. Do you plan on donating any money to the Boushie families gofundme? They lost the life of their son after all not just some property.

I will know.

Very true what you said.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by meritmat

I donated to his fund, heres why

He did not get up that morning figuring, I'm going to murder a Native, he was out minding his business doing a days work.

I have no idea what his defensive costed, but I would assume 10's of thousands of dollars, maybe 100's of thousands.

I (heard) his home 1/4 is listed for sale. So what ever has happened this man has been forced to sell his home or in the process of, he can never go back. I don't know how long he homesteaded there but its common for some familys to have over 100 year old farms (3 or 4 generations) All gone in a blink of an eye. The family has to move, just drop everthing, friends family you name it. All the man was doing was protecting his home.

When we go to bed at night, I don't lock my truck. Keys are in it, if somebody comes into my yard, take it. Even if I see them, I'm not going to try to stop them, its insured. But if your armed or if your trying to get into my house all bets are off

Two familys lives were forever changed that day but only one of them is getting destroyed in the press.

Originally Posted by icecube

Fair enough. Do you plan on donating any money to the Boushie families gofundme? They lost the life of their son after all not just some property.

Did you read the post you quoted before you replied to it?

I am donating to Stanley now as well.

As for Boushie, he was killed while he was in the middle of a crime spree. He woke up that day and made the decision to commit the actions that eventually cost him his life. It's sad for his family but he created the situation that led to his death.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Nice family.

Of course not. Indigenous citizens are very lucky to avoid becoming complete **** ups as the cards are so horribly stacked against them.

What's your upbringing Burnthiscity? Do you understand the terms "cycle of violence and cycle of poverty"? Would you miraculously be above the odds if you were Indegenous?

Sorry for the snark, but god damn are Indegenous ever our version of Black people.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by icecube

Fair enough. Do you plan on donating any money to the Boushie families gofundme? They lost the life of their son after all not just some property.

I will not be.