Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-08-2019, 09:19 AM   #61
OutOfTheCube
Franchise Player
 
OutOfTheCube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
Yeah you let him test the market.

I really like Jeff Skinner... but they really got no discount for being the only team that can give him 8 years.

That’s now the 16th biggest contract in the NHL - in line with Benn, Kucherov, and Stone. He’s not at that level of player IMO, has a rough injury history, and you are overpaid based on a career season.

His Career GPG average (0.37 GPG) is really similar to Kane and Pacioretty who recently signed for a $7M cap hit - is he really worth $2M than those guys especially on an 8 year term.

If they could have got him for 5 years at $9M and overpaid to keep the term down that’s fine but to give him that overpay at full term is crazy.

Granted Eichel and Skinner were great together last year...but are they $19M of your cap hit great?
Where do we replace the scoring if he walks? Panarin? He's not coming to Buffalo. Trade for a 40 goal scorer? Who? And what pieces (that we're willing to give up) would fetch that kind of return?

It's as much about the circumstance as it is about the contract. Yeah it would've been dumb for a team like Calgary or Vegas or whoever to give him this contract on July 1. But Buffalo had to sign him, it would've been a disaster if they didn't.
OutOfTheCube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to OutOfTheCube For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 10:44 AM   #62
Hey Connor, It's Mess
First Line Centre
 
Hey Connor, It's Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

What a time to be alive
Hey Connor, It's Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 10:47 AM   #63
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 11:31 AM   #64
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube View Post
Where do we replace the scoring if he walks? Panarin? He's not coming to Buffalo. Trade for a 40 goal scorer? Who? And what pieces (that we're willing to give up) would fetch that kind of return?

It's as much about the circumstance as it is about the contract. Yeah it would've been dumb for a team like Calgary or Vegas or whoever to give him this contract on July 1. But Buffalo had to sign him, it would've been a disaster if they didn't.
Win now!

No, the correct course of action for a team that completely imploded post January 1 is to trade a pending free agent in the midst of a career high season at 27 years of age to the highest bidder in the 3 weeks leading up to the trade DEADLINE, NOT sign them to a completely outrageous contract to prevent him from leaving.

FYI this is a bigger diaster than letting him walk away for nothing.

Getting a deep pocketed owner has been the worst thing to happen to buffalo since Bret hull's skate.
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flash Walken For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 11:47 AM   #65
Sylvanfan
Appealing my suspension
 
Sylvanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
Exp:
Default

This is the unintended consequence of the salary cap. Teams like Buffalo need to spend so they end up with contracts like this. The currency has different values in different cities.
__________________
"Some guys like old balls"
Patriots QB Tom Brady
Sylvanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 11:50 AM   #66
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

This kind of reminds me of the Vanek scenario.

Didnt they panic-pay Vanek too and that turned into a disaster because his production fell off a cliff?
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 11:51 AM   #67
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube View Post
Where do we replace the scoring if he walks? Panarin? He's not coming to Buffalo. Trade for a 40 goal scorer? Who? And what pieces (that we're willing to give up) would fetch that kind of return?

It's as much about the circumstance as it is about the contract. Yeah it would've been dumb for a team like Calgary or Vegas or whoever to give him this contract on July 1. But Buffalo had to sign him, it would've been a disaster if they didn't.
From day 1 i have been a huge Jeff Skinner fan...even called his Calder back in the day with the canes.

He plays the game the right way, is an OK 200' player even if not an elite level one, and has great hands with decent skating abilities.

All that being said..this contract looks to be a disaster at some point sooner rather than later.

If it was this deal or he walks? You let him walk. However, Botterill should have been well aware long before the deadline what, generally, it would take to keep him in Buffalo and if it was this? He should have dealt him and got a pretty decent haul. This is really poor GMing in my opinion.

You sound like you are even trying to talk yourself into believing this deal is OK. It isn't.

The money isn't even the issue here, its the money for 8 years. This is an absolute MAX contract for a guy of this caliber. Maybe even higher.

Skinner is a great player for sure, but he isnt a top 20 in the entire league player unless he starts popping 40 a year every year. I wouldn't count on that...though him and Eichel may have a few good years together...it wont be until Skinner is 35 years old.
__________________
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 11:53 AM   #68
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Absolutely love Skinner, but that contract is nutso in a cap world.

Duchene is gonna get ####ing PAID.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 12:13 PM   #69
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Did he help bury Jimmy Hoffa or something?
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 12:34 PM   #70
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
Win now!



No, the correct course of action for a team that completely imploded post January 1 is to trade a pending free agent in the midst of a career high season at 27 years of age to the highest bidder in the 3 weeks leading up to the trade DEADLINE, NOT sign them to a completely outrageous contract to prevent him from leaving.



FYI this is a bigger diaster than letting him walk away for nothing.



Getting a deep pocketed owner has been the worst thing to happen to buffalo since Bret hull's skate.


You forget get that it is also a business.

Walking away from Skinner might be the right move hockey wise, but it’s likely to alienate the fan base who will only put up with some much mediocrity.

Buffalo is a team on the rise, it might be bad business to regress now.

Skinner had great chemistry with Eichel. There is that.

But I don’t disagree with your hockey analysis.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 12:49 PM   #71
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
You forget get that it is also a business.

Walking away from Skinner might be the right move hockey wise, but it’s likely to alienate the fan base who will only put up with some much mediocrity.

Buffalo is a team on the rise, it might be bad business to regress now.

Skinner had great chemistry with Eichel. There is that.

But I don’t disagree with your hockey analysis.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well yeah, cause there is no other direction to go.I think they finished ahead of 4 teams in the league last year.

I agree you need to show fans you have a plan...this is not that though IMO. They are not close to contending based on last years and previous seasons results.

They are a mess on defense and looking at capfriendly, appear to have 2 NHL defensemen signed beyond this upcoming season. Their situation in goal is more of a question than the Flames have, which is hard to fathom, and are lacking depth everywhere.

Maybe Ralph Krueger can whip them into a much better team, but that is not something to be counted on, even though I have no doubt he is an upgrade on Housely.

I don't know...this is a huge gamble to ever see a payoff IMO.
__________________
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 01:32 PM   #72
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube View Post
Where do we replace the scoring if he walks?

[...]But Buffalo had to sign him, it would've been a disaster if they didn't.
This is indeed how some GM's think, and it's the path to making catastrophic errors in free agency.

Simply put, if you have to overpay a player to play for you, let him play somewhere else. You can't predict where things will stand in two years, much less six or seven. Don't hamstring your team for eight years with a deal that's cringe-worthy on day one.

As for where you get the scoring from, you need Reinhart, Nylander and Middlestat to make progress or this isn't going anywhere. The Sabres have one of the better prospect pools in the league. Keep building through the draft.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 01:41 PM   #73
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

If Jeff Skinner is a 9 million dollar foward, what the hell are they going to end up paying Sam Reinhart?
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 01:49 PM   #74
Lanny_McDonald
Franchise Player
 
Lanny_McDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
If Jeff Skinner is a 9 million dollar foward, what the hell are they going to end up paying Sam Reinhart?
A #### of a lot less. Sam Reinhart can't carry Jeff Skinner's jock at this point, regardless of point production. Just like Matthew Tkachuk can't compare to Skinner, Reinhart should not be pressing that case as well. Skinner is a much better player all around and has the advantage of UFA status to work with. Neither Tkachuk nor Reinhart have that advantage, nor the track record, to rely upon when it comes to establishing their worth.
Lanny_McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 01:58 PM   #75
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era View Post
A #### of a lot less. Sam Reinhart can't carry Jeff Skinner's jock at this point, regardless of point production. Just like Matthew Tkachuk can't compare to Skinner, Reinhart should not be pressing that case as well. Skinner is a much better player all around and has the advantage of UFA status to work with. Neither Tkachuk nor Reinhart have that advantage, nor the track record, to rely upon when it comes to establishing their worth.
I dunno man.

Reinhart is a 3x 20 goal scorer with 47, 50 and 65 point seasons in the last three years.

They just gave 9 million dollars to a guy who scored 63 points and 3 years ago gave 6 million to a guy who scored 64 points.

Reinhart will be arbitration eligible at the end of the season and I believe will be a 25 year old UFA due to accrued seasons, meaning any multi year deal he signs with include at least 1 year of UFA status.

If I'm Reinhart's agent I have a muffin basket on the way to Skinner's house right now.
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 01:59 PM   #76
transplant99
Fearmongerer
 
transplant99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era View Post
A #### of a lot less. Sam Reinhart can't carry Jeff Skinner's jock at this point, regardless of point production. Just like Matthew Tkachuk can't compare to Skinner, Reinhart should not be pressing that case as well. Skinner is a much better player all around and has the advantage of UFA status to work with. Neither Tkachuk nor Reinhart have that advantage, nor the track record, to rely upon when it comes to establishing their worth.
Not that i disagree with you, but Reinhart out pointed Skinner on the same team this year.

He doesn't have UFA status obviously, but RFA leverage has seemingly dried up for the teams.

Reinhart is definitely in line for a huge payday just compared to the other contracts on his own team, nevermind around the league. I will say though he certainly isnt as well rounded a player...at least not yet.

Sams averaging 51 pts a year. Skinner has averaged 55 pts a year.

Not going to be as much a difference as one would expect IMO.
__________________
transplant99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 02:15 PM   #77
OutOfTheCube
Franchise Player
 
OutOfTheCube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

There's a pretty significant value difference between a 40 goal/60 point guy and a 20 goal/60 point guy.
OutOfTheCube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OutOfTheCube For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 02:17 PM   #78
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
I dunno man.

Reinhart is a 3x 20 goal scorer with 47, 50 and 65 point seasons in the last three years.

They just gave 9 million dollars to a guy who scored 63 points and 3 years ago gave 6 million to a guy who scored 64 points.

Reinhart will be arbitration eligible at the end of the season and I believe will be a 25 year old UFA due to accrued seasons, meaning any multi year deal he signs with include at least 1 year of UFA status.

If I'm Reinhart's agent I have a muffin basket on the way to Skinner's house right now.


*40 goals. 40 goal scorers get paid
Scroopy Noopers is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Scroopy Noopers For This Useful Post:
Old 06-08-2019, 02:24 PM   #79
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
.







If I'm Reinhart's agent I have a muffin basket on the way to Skinner's house right now.

What, just the basket, no muffins?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2019, 02:26 PM   #80
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
What, just the basket, no muffins?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
He can afford his own muffins now!
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:31 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021