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Old 06-19-2017, 09:27 AM   #1041
Oil Stain
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Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce View Post
More than anything, I think he is pretty consistent?
This is key for me. Not sure the Flames need a guy to stand on his head, but all those cheap goals have to be stopped.
I was reading Coyote fan comments and one of their biggest gripes about Mike Smith has been his inconsistency since 2013.

Before last season, they felt that his contract was unmovable and they were resigned to having him remain on the team until the contract's conclusion.

So while he played well last season, most fans were happy to see him go.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:28 AM   #1042
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I think two or three playoff round wins in the next two seasons is a realistic goal. I expect the team to compete for the Division and to win a round this year. Another round this year is gravy.
I agree that's generally realistic, but measurable improvement in playoffs may not come every year. It would be fun though.

Really it comes down to whether you are creating a championship contender or not. If we are being realistic, Mike Smith doesn't do that. But he is holding the fort until one of the younger, cheaper goalies hopefully emerges.

That doesn't have to be inconsistent with making a nice run in the playoffs in the interim.

That's why I am still a little lukewarm on the Smith deal. Maybe this team should be hoarding assets and cap space for the next opportunity to land a game changer.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:31 AM   #1043
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
I was reading Coyote fan comments and one of their biggest gripes about Mike Smith has been his inconsistency since 2013.

Before last season, they felt that his contract was unmovable and they were resigned to having him remain on the team until the contract's conclusion.

So while he played well last season, most fans were happy to see him go.
Yeah, this is the opposite of what I want to have happen.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:34 AM   #1044
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Has he been hurt the last couple years? Only 87 games over the last 2 seasons.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:34 AM   #1045
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I was reading Coyote fan comments and one of their biggest gripes about Mike Smith has been his inconsistency since 2013.

Before last season, they felt that his contract was unmovable and they were resigned to having him remain on the team until the contract's conclusion.

So while he played well last season, most fans were happy to see him go.
Yeah I am sure Coyote fans are very pleased with the return here. I am a little surprised the Coyotes had any trade leverage.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:56 AM   #1046
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Remember when Smith was actively in the conversation to be the third goalie for Team Canada? Good times.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:56 AM   #1047
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The Kings missed the playoffs the moment Quick was injured.
Jonathon Quick is the most overrated player in hockey...

Jonathan Quick sv% 2017: .917
Jonathan Quick sv% 2016: .918
Jonathan Quick sv% 2015: .918
Jonathan Quick sv% 2014: .915
Jonathan Quick sv% Career: .916

... Peter Budaj LA Kings (53 GP) sv% 2017: .917

They missed the playoffs with a goalie that put up effectively the same performance as Quicks average. The Kings missed the playoffs because they're old and slow and play a low event brand of hockey that limits goalscoring (for and against).
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:07 AM   #1048
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Jonathon Quick is the most overrated player in hockey...

Jonathan Quick sv% 2017: .917
Jonathan Quick sv% 2016: .918
Jonathan Quick sv% 2015: .918
Jonathan Quick sv% 2014: .915
Jonathan Quick sv% Career: .916

... Peter Budaj LA Kings (53 GP) sv% 2017: .917

They missed the playoffs with a goalie that put up effectively the same performance as Quicks average. The Kings missed the playoffs because they're old and slow and play a low event brand of hockey that limits goalscoring (for and against).
The Kings changed their style of play to accommodate Budaj's ability, playing a more defensive style to hide his deficiencies.

Their hope in trading for Bishop was to be able to play more offensively, but it clearly didn't work.

I'm also not a big fan if simply relying upon save percentage in judging goalies.

You can simply look at Budaj's save percentage last year, and he's terrible.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:09 AM   #1049
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I was reading Coyote fan comments and one of their biggest gripes about Mike Smith has been his inconsistency since 2013.
Goalies playing on very poor teams are often inconsistent.

Smith could be very good on a much better Calgary team.

Treliving is certainly convinced of it.

In my mind, he's earned the right to be proven wrong before I judge him.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:11 AM   #1050
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^^ Nailed it. Smith is probably only a slight upgrade on Elliott, but the key is that Smith has the reputation as being capable of starting 55+ games and being a consistent, number one guy. Elliott has NEVER done that and would be coming back with last year's playoff meltdown looming over his head.

I also think Smith was the best "fit" in terms of organizational need given our goalie prospects. A guy like Raanta may have better/longer term upside, but that's not what the team needs or is prepared to pay for at this stage (especially if there is a risk that he'll flop -- another step back in 2017/18 would be devastating for the organization IMO, so better to go with a safer, more sure bet).
I'll preface all of this by admitting it's conjecture. But Brian Elliott was a complete frontrunner. When things are going his way, he's a very good NHL goalie. And in the regular season, with a good team in front of you, that can lead to a lot of wins.

I can't think of a game this season where it looked like things were getting away from us, and Elliott rallied from a bad goal to slam the door. In the magical Hartley season, a big reason for all the comeback wins was the ability of Hiller and Ramo to avoid giving up the NEXT next goal to put the game out of reach. Elliott never gave the team the saves they needed when they needed them.

Mike Smith is a scrappy SOB. He yells at his bench during TV timeouts. He was also traded for Brad Richards once upon a time - the talent has always been there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm way happier with Smith and the 16th overall pick instead of Raanta and nothing. Or seven years of Ben Bishop. Those that feel there's a true franchise number 1 available among this cast of characters, I applaud your convictions.

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Remember when Smith was actively in the conversation to be the third goalie for Team Canada? Good times.
What's this 'actively in the conversation'? He WAS the third goalie for Team Canada in 2014. He has a gold medal to prove it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:16 AM   #1051
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For me, Smith is a marginal upgrade on Elliott, if for nothing else that he won't be dogged all year for his crappy playoff performance from last year. Hopefully, Smith can provide average goaltending with a few steals along the way. I think he is fully capable of that.

Just as importantly, although some have derogatively called this "stop-gap", I think that is entirely the point of the acquisition. They weren't looking for a long term savior, as I think this trade indicates they feel they have some home-grown talent that will step up. They aren't ready yet, but I think this is in some way a vote of confidence that the young guys will be ready in a couple of years.
This is right. Had Elliott not been so weak in the playoffs (even if the Flames still lost to the Ducks), I suspect the consensus would be that, unless there's an elite goalie available, he'd be okay to re-sign at about the same salary based on his play over the entire season, which was bad, then good, then okay.

So the Flames get Smith who is probably at about the same level, more or less, at about the same salary. Not a huge upgrade, but competent to keep the Flames competitive until one of Gillies, Parsons or maybe even Rittich can step up. I think that management is justifiably confident that one of them will.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:17 AM   #1052
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When your team is going to allow you to get shelled with one of the highest nightly shot averages in the league, and provide losing efforts more often then not, I'd say it's fair for a goalie to show inconsistency.

Smith deserves a chance behind a playoff caliber team.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:23 AM   #1053
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When your team is going to allow you to get shelled with one of the highest nightly shot averages in the league, and provide losing efforts more often then not, I'd say it's fair for a goalie to show inconsistency.
This, plus take a look at almost every team's fan site other than Montreal and see what they say about their own goalie's consistency. Every fan base, it seems, thinks their goalie is too inconsistent. This includes guys almost everyone here would take in a heartbeat, like Talbot, Schneider, Rask, etc. Or guys that some people here were high on at various times like MAF and Bishop.

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Old 06-19-2017, 10:27 AM   #1054
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I feel like Smith is the opposite of Elliott in terms of their situation prior to coming to Calgary. Elliott may have padded his stats while playing behind a solid defensive team in St. Louis while Smith's stats may be lower than his true potential while playing behind that terrible Arizona team.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:30 AM   #1055
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This, plus take a look at almost every team's fan site other than Montreal and see what they say about their own goalie's consistency. Every fan base, it seems, thinks their goalie is too inconsistent. This includes guys almost everyone here would take in a heartbeat, like Talbot, Schneider, Raask, etc. Or guys that some people here were high on at various times like MAF and Bishop.
Rask gets so much unnecessary hate from Bruins fans. He's a top 10 goalie, on a given night he can be one of the two or three best in the world. And they treat him like he's Joey MacDonald.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:36 AM   #1056
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Their hope in trading for Bishop was to be able to play more offensively, but it clearly didn't work.
Yes... because they're old and slow and can't score enough goals. Which would have been the same under Quick as it was under any other goalie. It's a small sample for Quick but let's review their 2017 on-ice season side-by-side...


Quick GF/60: 1.75
Budaj GF/60: 2.08

Quick GA/60: 1.99
Budaj GA/60: 1.86

Quick CF%: 53.4
Budaj CF%: 53.9

That's goals for/against per 60 minutes and shot attempt share. The differences are marginal (better for Budaj but I'll cut Quick a bit of slack and figure he'd have bridged the difference over a similer number of games). The results for the Kings "playing different" in front of Budaj look an awful lot like the results for the Kings playing in front of Quick. The shot share is most telling... if the Kings were in fact playing different I'd expect to see a more then 00.5 difference in their shot attempt share.

Jonathon Quick is a product of his environment. That's not to say he's a bad goaltender (he's not) but the past success of the LA Kings was a product of the team in front of him and that team fell short (and I expect to continue to fall short in the immediate future).
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:44 AM   #1057
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I'm curious to see how Smith plays away from Tippet's defensive system. Also being able to catch his many angry outbursts this year will be entertaining.
The coyotes haven't played well defensively for a while now. He'll be fine.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:54 AM   #1058
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The coyotes haven't played well defensively for a while now. He'll be fine.
I've never thought the Coyotes were a good defensive team even when they were somewhat respectable. They clog the middle of the ice but when the puck starts getting cycled in their end they are downright putrid.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:55 AM   #1059
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The Yotes are a good defensive team in the way that an expansion team is a good defensive team.
Which is to say, they focus on it, but ain't good at it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:21 AM   #1060
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The Yotes are a good defensive team in the way that an expansion team is a good defensive team.
Which is to say, they focus on it, but ain't good at it.
No kidding, being terrible offensively doesn't make you a good defensive team...they are just a bad team
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