2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[jayswin]

The problem now is there is only one course of direction due to circumstance. Rogers isn't going to let Atkins and/or Shapiro lead a rebuild most likely, but they are in place for this season. So those two will only go one direction this season and that's try to sign every one they can and patch together a team that they believe can squeak into a wildcard spot to keep their jobs.

Bo is gone, imo. So my guess is we'll see a couple filler/silly free agents at big dollars after we lose out on all the real ones, and then they'll hand Vladdy massive contract out of desperation to not let him go to free agency, while not trading Bo because making the playoffs this year is too critical to them keeping their jobs.

[bluejays]

Vlad and Bo are elite bats. Not generational talents but elite. To me they should have been exploring deals last year, with the maximizing of the return through a potential sign and trade. I’ve said they should be looking to deal them out of necessity last year. I don’t want to deal them but truly the second they went with a d first lineup it was apparent they didn’t have the bat talent through their prospect development, and it was necessary to deal them to get that barring they go the LA route and go ballistic on salary. I don’t blame Atkins for not signing Bo and Vlad. It takes two to tango and if Bo and Vlad wanted to bet on themselves they can’t be forced to sign. But the lack of prospect development and the lack of asset management is completely their fault. Poor asset management all around. They can continue pointing to vanity metrics like their defensive capability but it’s not winning jack. This is all on Atkins.

[jayswin]

It's going to be a disaster, imo. But it's not a disaster born of this off season, it's been years in the making due to their laid back (we'll deal with that next year) management style. A lack of panic in GM's can be a positive trait, but not if there isn't an element of planned aggressiveness.

"How's this rebuild going? Are we on pace for becoming aggressive when I wanted to? What are the young stars doing? When do I cut bait/try to sign early to lock them in long term at a reasonable price?"

Everything they do just seems like they're doing a once a year grocery shopping trip, knocking the essentials off the list in a 3 week period. "K, what's the least aggressive business we can do this off season with our players? Pay that guy $17mil, don't worry about negotiating long term we don't have to yet, k we need 2 positions players, go to free agency, who's that guy? Yep, good another thing out of our way. Boom, we have ourselves a team for the next season and didn't have to break a sweat, make tough decisions or doing anything bold".

The last two off seasons have been a bit of a departure with a massive swing at elite UFA's that were likely never coming here. It was almost worse this way, as they don't really have much of a back up plan to these huge offers.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

They could also trade them. Which at this point is probably the best option if they won't re-sign at reasonable prices, which seems likely. Especially for Vlad - seeing what Soto got and the season he had last year, makes sense to bet on yourself, imo, short of a big overpay.

The Jays aren't contenders this year without multiple more bats that it doesn't look like they're getting. Given that, it probably makes sense to recoup assets on the pending FAs. Could just plan for comp picks I suppose, but I'd think they'd get considerably more than that for Vlad especially.

I can just imagine the return they'd get for trading Bo right now.

I hope they do trade Vladdy though

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I don’t blame Atkins for not signing Bo and Vlad. It takes two to tango and if Bo and Vlad wanted to bet on themselves they can’t be forced to sign.

If what Guerrero said is true there was no long term offer to consider since 2021 until after Soto signed.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Inferno

If what Guerrero said is true there was no long term offer to consider since 2021 until after Soto signed.

Not sure I understand or seen the quote. What did he say?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Not sure I understand or seen the quote. What did he say?

I can't seem to find the tweet but he said they made no offer to him after the 2022 or 2023 season.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I can't seem to find the tweet but he said they made no offer to him after the 2022 or 2023 season.

I don’t know the exact process for making a deal but I imagine there are initial discussions with the agent before a deal is brought forth. If the agent says the player sees themselves as capable of more and deserving of a big contract but was in a down year and they want to prove themselves, I don’t imagine it would yield a contract put forth by the team. Vlad wasn’t his best at all during the COVID seasons. Just as Bo wasn’t good last year. In fairness to Idiot Atkins, if the players had no interest in selling short to a discounted long term contract, then no team would put one in front of them for the sake of it. Bo though should’ve been signed ages back. Vlad was up and down though. So I imagine Vlad’s statement was true but not completely truthful in that to this point he wasn’t interested in selling himself short. But now that the market has dictated a minimum $500M deal, it’s really making the team question if he’s worth that.

To me he’s not. No player is. I’d deal him. But some sucker will pay that as we’ve seen.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I don’t know the exact process for making a deal but I imagine there are initial discussions with the agent before a deal is brought forth. If the agent says the player sees themselves as capable of more and deserving of a big contract but was in a down year and they want to prove themselves, I don’t imagine it would yield a contract put forth by the team. Vlad wasn’t his best at all during the COVID seasons. Just as Bo wasn’t good last year. In fairness to Idiot Atkins, if the players had no interest in selling short to a discounted long term contract, then no team would put one in front of them for the sake of it. Bo though should’ve been signed ages back. Vlad was up and down though. So I imagine Vlad’s statement was true but not completely truthful in that to this point he wasn’t interested in selling himself short. But now that the market has dictated a minimum $500M deal, it’s really making the team question if he’s worth that.

To me he’s not. No player is. I’d deal him. But some sucker will pay that as we’ve seen.

I think the only team that gives Vlad $500MM is the Mets. Them and the Dodgers are the only ones that would spend that, and the Dodgers already have 1B and DH locked up.

Tl;dr nobody wants Vlad to sign an extension with the Jays more than Pete Alonso and his agent.

[Jason14h]

Yankees will be all over Vlad . As will the Red Sox , Angels, and I imagine Phillies

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yankees will be all over Vlad . As will the Red Sox , Angels, and I imagine Phillies

I think those teams would all make offers, except the Phillies who have Bryce Harper at 1B for like another 8 years or something.

I don't think anyone except the Mets goes $500 MM for Vladdy. He's good but I don't think he's in that generational tier that gets that type of money.

Maybe the Yankees - that 1 year for Goldschmidtt sort of looks like a bridge to Vladdy.

[Inferno]

We all know how this will probably end.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1874190401898504284

[bluejays]

Re: suitors for Vlad, I think there would be a few others in the mix as well. San Fran has been looking for a bomber for awhile and seem to be missing out on pursuits. I’d imagine they’d take a big swing. AA also knows Vlad. Could see Atlanta pushing too. There are enough teams where I think a few of those big budget ones who aren’t the New York or LAs would be okay with that lower tier of salary. I personally think it’s dumb, insurance coverage or not but it’s a sport where grown men throw their toy money around and things happen.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I like Santander but, if he’s the only one they add, I don’t think it’s worth the inevitable overpay. He’s a good player but I don’t think he alone is enough of a difference maker to really move the needle for this team. The lineup needs Santander ++ to compete in the AL. A bullpen that has Garcia and Green as closers isn’t exactly going to inspire confidence either.

At this point, I think the team is sleepwalking to a rebuild. They just don’t have a plan.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I like Santander but, if he’s the only one they add, I don’t think it’s worth the inevitable overpay. He’s a good player but I don’t think he alone is enough of a difference maker to really move the needle for this team. The lineup needs Santander ++ to compete in the AL. A bullpen that has Garcia and Green as closers isn’t exactly going to inspire confidence either.

At this point, I think the team is sleepwalking to a rebuild. They just don’t have a plan.

That's all this is, yep. And due to their incompetence and patience, we're not even going to get a bunch of sell offs to kickstart the rebuild.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Re: suitors for Vlad, I think there would be a few others in the mix as well. San Fran has been looking for a bomber for awhile and seem to be missing out on pursuits. I’d imagine they’d take a big swing. AA also knows Vlad. Could see Atlanta pushing too. There are enough teams where I think a few of those big budget ones who aren’t the New York or LAs would be okay with that lower tier of salary. I personally think it’s dumb, insurance coverage or not but it’s a sport where grown men throw their toy money around and things happen.

Like I said, at $500 MM I only see the Mets. Those other teams will be interested/make offers, but imo if the Mets go $500MM or more that's where he'll end up.

That would be the 3rd highest contract in MLB history, and $140 MM more than Judge got just 2 years ago. I don't think the market is up more than 50% in the last 2 years and I don't think Vlad has equal or greater value than Judge

[Roof-Daddy]

Good lord imagine paying Vladdy $500 million

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Good lord imagine paying Vladdy $500 million

Not for a 1st baseman, Jays are in world of trouble...

[jayswin]

I know a lot of people here didn't like AA for a variety of reasons, but I always did, and would much prefer him to this clown duo. At least with AA what you got was some balls to either be in or out depending on the fortunes of the team and players.

When he saw an opportunity to put the team over the top, he friggin went for it. Love that attitude in a GM.

[flambers]

I liked AA, probably the best GM the Jays have had in quite a few years..