Calgary flames won’t pay their hourly staff during Covid-19

[united]

Will be emailing my account rep (who is not at fault here it's important to note) shortly as well. Really disappointed with the Flames in this even if I'm not surprised.

[The Big Chill]

I'm sure it will be a tricky situations for many businesses in the city that have greatly reduced revenues over the coming weeks. Obviously you hope the rich ones provide support where they can, but a lot of businesses won't have extra money to spare.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Even with EI it maxes out at 567$ a week. After taxes that isn't even enough to live on and feed a family. Completely embarrassing by team owners. At least top up their EI so they can make as much as they were supposed to before the Pandemic.

[redmile04]

* W. Brett Wilson *
@WBrettWilson
·
2h
Your facts struggle.

Flames don’t own the arena. The city does. Flames donated 1/2 the cost. So you start out failing.

One minority owner (hardly “the” owner) didn’t move for tax reasons. And isn’t living in the UK.

If you claim to be a reporter - try to factcheck someday.
Quote Tweet

Patrick Johnston
@risingaction
· 4h
Reminder that not only did the Flames get a whack of public cash for their arena, their billionaire owner moved to UK to cut his tax bill

[#-3]

Doesn't change that it would be nice to see them support their part time employees going into a time when many are going to be missing out on income.

But my guess about them continuing to pay players.

1) the players will still be obliged to play for the pay they have already received if scheduled. While if you pay the part time staff for tonight without working, you are probably paying them all over again, in the event of a rescheduled game.
2) If this event hits hockey revenue, they will claw back the excess payments in escrow anyways.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Even with EI it maxes out at 567$ a week. After taxes that isn't even enough to live on and feed a family. Completely embarrassing by team owners. At least top up their EI so they can make as much as they were supposed to before the Pandemic.

EI is tough here, for the majority of these people it is a second job, not an EI situation.

[Bunk]

Getting owned by Edmonton in a battle of Alberta that actually matters.

No Good.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I'm sure it will be a tricky situations for many businesses in the city that have greatly reduced revenues over the coming weeks. Obviously you hope the rich ones provide support where they can, but a lot of businesses won't have extra money to spare.

Agreed, it’s going to be tough for a lot of businesses. And while I think they should pay their employees in this situation, the Flames are one of those businesses as well. They spend a lot of money, but it’s been discussed a lot that without a playoffs, the Flames themselves don’t turn much of a profit.

I hope paying customers fired up about this (and rightfully so), if they are also the customers fired up by price increases, they connect the dots on where paying this extra expense is going to have to come from........ And I wonder how many of them would be willing to pay for their tickets even if the games are never replayed to ensure the staff gets paid?

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Also, to the Flames, nice work boys. I’m sure the $250k or whatever it is was worth it!

I will just say here that it is (A LOT) more than that. I get arguments on both sides but I would say from the assumptions I’ve see in the thread the dollar amounts being estimated just aren’t close to true.

Not sure that really changes the opinion on this from the average joe, but in the effort of understanding both sides it would help to understand that it’s not an immaterial sum... the basketball players and Bobrovsky deals are very generous commitments from the players but ultimately is a very small fraction of the dollars we are talking about here.

I have a feeling that the decision here could be different if the games dont get made up... but if they do and then the flames play in the playoffs then everyone will get their shifts and then some...

As a flames employee the internal culture has really improved quite dramatically over the last 5 years and John Bean is a very generous and charitable man. I do think this decision is more complex than it’s made out to be and that they will come out with something after they have had time to do their due diligence and think whatever they come back with won’t be because of public relations.

[FaFaFlamey]

Originally Posted by redmile04

* W. Brett Wilson *
@WBrettWilson
·
2h
Your facts struggle.

Flames don’t own the arena. The city does. Flames donated 1/2 the cost. So you start out failing.

One minority owner (hardly “the” owner) didn’t move for tax reasons. And isn’t living in the UK.

If you claim to be a reporter - try to factcheck someday.
Quote Tweet

Patrick Johnston
@risingaction
· 4h
Reminder that not only did the Flames get a whack of public cash for their arena, their billionaire owner moved to UK to cut his tax bill

Consider the source. No surprise one billionaire backing up other billionaires. 2 words: orphan wells.

The Flames are taking a full on public relations beating on Twitter. This is not good! Oiler fans are having a ball.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by #-3

EI is tough here, for the majority of these people it is a second job, not an EI situation.

Yeah I didn't even think of that. Very good point.

[Zarley]

Yikes, this is a really bad look.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I will just say here that it is (A LOT) more than that. I get arguments on both sides but I would say from the assumptions I’ve see in the thread the dollar amounts being estimated just aren’t close to true.

Not sure that really changes the opinion on this from the average joe, but in the effort of understanding both sides it would help to understand that it’s not an immaterial sum... the basketball players and Bobrovsky deals are very generous commitments from the players but ultimately is a very small fraction of the dollars we are talking about here.

I have a feeling that the decision here could be different if the games dont get made up... but if they do and then the flames play in the playoffs then everyone will get their shifts and then some...

As a flames employee the internal culture has really improved quite dramatically over the last 5 years and John Bean is a very generous and charitable man. I do think this decision is more complex than it’s made out to be and that they will come out with something after they have had time to do their due diligence and think whatever they come back with won’t be because of public relations.

I think I heard ~1200 event employees ,
guessing they are ~$15/h mostly,
~4.5 hours/shift from my experience as a young man.
no benefits, so additional cost of employment is probably under 20%

1200 x 15 x 4.5 x 1.2 = $97,200.
We are probably talking close to $100,000 per game.
There are 7 postponed games they are no paying for
+ limited staff for a few Roughnecks and Hitmen games.

To pay out the regular seasons I think it is very close to $1M.

[Brick]

https://www.tsn.ca/calgary-flames-wo...ance-1.1457367

[Flash Walken]

Yeah, upon further reflection, that's it for me.

World wide pandemic, billionaires with all the means in the world to do the right thing without prompting, #### about to hit the fan provincially.

They decide to screw over their lowest paid and most dependent employees to save less money than what they spend on sticks for a season.

It's more than tone deaf.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, upon further reflection, that's it for me.

World wide pandemic, billionaires with all the means in the world to do the right thing without prompting, #### about to hit the fan provincially.

They decide to screw over their lowest paid and most dependent employees to save less money than what they spend on sticks for a season.

It's more than tone deaf.

Don't worry. It'll trickle down or something.

[united]

Craig Custance had an article in The Athletic today on impacts, using confidential industry sources.

Obviously huge variance involved in any numbers organization-to-organization, but here's what he wrote:

NHL financial impact: How much money does a team bring in each home game?
https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/

There’s the electrical bill, property taxes (in some cases) and interest and amortization if the building is financed; plus putting on an NHL game requires somewhere close to 1,000 ushers, ticket-takers, security guards, maintenance people, concession workers and production employees for the in-game presentation. The bulk of those folks are hourly workers, only a small subset are team employees. In any case, it can cost a team anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000 per game for all of them to be there.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by united

Craig Custance had an article in The Athletic today on impacts, using confidential industry sources.

Obviously huge variance involved in any numbers organization-to-organization, but here's what he wrote:

NHL financial impact: How much money does a team bring in each home game?
https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/

There’s the electrical bill, property taxes (in some cases) and interest and amortization if the building is financed; plus putting on an NHL game requires somewhere close to 1,000 ushers, ticket-takers, security guards, maintenance people, concession workers and production employees for the in-game presentation. The bulk of those folks are hourly workers, only a small subset are team employees. In any case, it can cost a team anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000 per game for all of them to be there.

Less than what they are paying brouwer this year.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by redmile04

* W. Brett Wilson *
@WBrettWilson
·
2h
Your facts struggle.

Flames don’t own the arena. The city does. Flames donated 1/2 the cost. So you start out failing.

One minority owner (hardly “the” owner) didn’t move for tax reasons. And isn’t living in the UK.

If you claim to be a reporter - try to factcheck someday.
Quote Tweet

Patrick Johnston
@risingaction
· 4h
Reminder that not only did the Flames get a whack of public cash for their arena, their billionaire owner moved to UK to cut his tax bill

LOL Flames donated half. Get a load of this guy hahah #### off

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I will just say here that it is (A LOT) more than that. I get arguments on both sides but I would say from the assumptions I’ve see in the thread the dollar amounts being estimated just aren’t close to true.

Not sure that really changes the opinion on this from the average joe, but in the effort of understanding both sides it would help to understand that it’s not an immaterial sum... the basketball players and Bobrovsky deals are very generous commitments from the players but ultimately is a very small fraction of the dollars we are talking about here.

I have a feeling that the decision here could be different if the games dont get made up... but if they do and then the flames play in the playoffs then everyone will get their shifts and then some...

As a flames employee the internal culture has really improved quite dramatically over the last 5 years and John Bean is a very generous and charitable man. I do think this decision is more complex than it’s made out to be and that they will come out with something after they have had time to do their due diligence and think whatever they come back with won’t be because of public relations.

What would your estimation of the costs of 1 month pay for CSEC staff is? Understanding it’s more than just the Flames, and much of the payroll is probably over minimum wage too. Maybe $2MM? Not sure.

Anyway, I get that losing money sucks, but the consequences of being unable to pay your mortgage is suckier.