20 Million in Cap Space next year?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Again, how? There wasnt cap space for that. The extra pennies Tree saved got the team some added depth in Reider and Rinaldo. And I repeat that Mangiapane didnt warrant that kind of contract despite what some fans thought of the guy.

Still think the line of thinking that the Flames screwed up with mangianes contract is whack.

What?

Those guys are on league minimum contracts. You could sign a dozen guys just like that regardless of where you are in terms of the cap because you can bury their whole contract.

I'm not sure that Treliving made a mistake grinding Mangiapane, but I would have to think Mangiapane is more likely to return the favor now that he has arbitration rights and a good season.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

5 UFA defenseman to consider. Do either Brodie or Hamonic (or both, maybe?) re-sign for a fair deal that isn't too long in term? If either (or both) of them come back, they're going to be available in the expansion draft you'd have to imagine!

If you were Brodie, would you sign a reasonable deal without too much term, and not have protection from expansion?

Zero chance of any of that occurring.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm starting to think nickle and dimeing mangiapane one year before he's arbitration eligible and then playing him consistently with the team's best offensive player might have been a bad strategy.

Starting to think?
You’ve been hammering that point for weeks
It wasn’t nickel and diming
He hadnt established himself
He has now. It’s good for him and the team. Win win

[Enoch Root]

The Mangiapane argument is silly. As players improve, they will cost you more, sooner or later. If they had given Mangiapane a two year deal for $1.5M let's say (or whatever it would have been), then sure he would be back next year at the same low price. But then he will cost even more after next season (assuming continued growth).

His 20-odd goals this year will likely get his a contract in the $3M range, give or take.

But let's imagine he signed a two-year deal instead of one. And after potting 20+ this year, he pots 25-30 next year. If so, he would then be in a position to negotiate something more like $5m/yr for his next deal.

It all shakes out over time. And the amount that some people fret over it, from year to year, is amazing. Sure, there are disaster contracts like Neal and Lucic. But for RFAs that are working their way up the lineup, it all works out over time.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Starting to think?
You’ve been hammering that point for weeks
It wasn’t nickel and diming
He hadnt established himself
He has now. It’s good for him and the team. Win win

At the time I was saying the flames were nickle and diming. Even the posters here who thought magiapane was asking for too much thought the flames were offering more than they ended up offering. Hardly anyone on this board thought the flames were offering league minimum on a 2 way, but it turned out that was the offer. That's the same offer they gave Kulak before arbitration when the cap was not as tight.

Where one guy sees someone not having established himself another guy sees a budding young goal scorer. I'm not crowing here because I wasn't the only one.

The flames needed mangiapane to take league minimum in order to sign tkachuk to a bridge deal and start with a 21 or 22 man roster. They needed to do this because they didn't/wouldn't/couldn't move frolik or Brodie or hamonic.

I suppose you could call it a win win but a better win win would've been not souring a relationship but holding a budding young goal scorers feet to the fire on a one year deal and then having to paying him 4 or 5 times as much on his deal a year later when all it really bought you was 5 goals in 4 months from Frolik.

Eat Bread is likelier than not to finish with more than 20 goals this year. That's going to cost the flames more than it should have IMO and impacts the ability to fill out the roster more than it should.

Me suggesting mangiapane was worth a million per on a multi year deal got me accused of not being a fan or hating treliving last summer and when it came out that the flames offered him league minimum, that they had indeed been playing hardball, there was barely a peep.

You'll have to excuse me if I get a chuckle 6 months later about how things have taken shape.

Great post here about the situation at the time:

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Mangiapane doesn’t have arb rights and put up a very typical year. He pretty much has to take what he’s given.

That said, his goals per 60 was 7th on the Flames last year, on a team that scored a ton. He didn’t get much powerplay time. Had good possession stats. I thought he drove offensive production when he was on the ice, especially in the later half of the year.

It is shame the Flames don’t have much cap flexibility this year, because Mangiapane would be a guy I’d like to see locked up for 3-4 years. It would not surprise me in the slightest if he put up a 15-20 goal season. If you could lock up his prime years with a AAV that starts with a 1, that could be some good value done the road.

Sometimes it's fun to have a laugh.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

At the time I was saying the flames were nickle and diming. Even the posters here who thought magiapane was asking for too much thought the flames were offering more than they ended up offering. Hardly anyone on this board thought the flames were offering league minimum on a 2 way, but it turned out that was the offer. That's the same offer they gave Kulak before arbitration when the cap was not as tight.

Where one guy sees someone not having established himself another guy sees a budding young goal scorer. I'm not crowing here because I wasn't the only one.

The flames needed mangiapane to take league minimum in order to sign tkachuk to a bridge deal and start with a 21 or 22 man roster. They needed to do this because they didn't/wouldn't/couldn't move frolik or Brodie or hamonic.

I suppose you could call it a win win but a better win win would've been not souring a relationship but holding a budding young goal scorers feet to the fire on a one year deal and then having to paying him 4 or 5 times as much on his deal a year later when all it really bought you was 5 goals in 4 months from Frolik.

Eat Bread is likelier than not to finish with more than 20 goals this year. That's going to cost the flames more than it should have IMO and impacts the ability to fill out the roster more than it should.

Me suggesting mangiapane was worth a million per on a multi year deal got me accused of not being a fan or hating treliving last summer and when it came out that the flames offered him league minimum, that they had indeed been playing hardball, there was barely a peep.

You'll have to excuse me if I get a chuckle 6 months later about how things have taken shape.

Great post here about the situation at the time:



Sometimes it's fun to have a laugh.

Getting everyone signed under the cap before the start of the season was challenge. They probably would have signed him to a multi-year deal, but it didn't make sense at the time.

It turned out to be a one year bargain for the team at least.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

At the time I was saying the flames were nickle and diming. Even the posters here who thought magiapane was asking for too much thought the flames were offering more than they ended up offering. Hardly anyone on this board thought the flames were offering league minimum on a 2 way, but it turned out that was the offer. That's the same offer they gave Kulak before arbitration when the cap was not as tight.

Where one guy sees someone not having established himself another guy sees a budding young goal scorer. I'm not crowing here because I wasn't the only one.

The flames needed mangiapane to take league minimum in order to sign tkachuk to a bridge deal and start with a 21 or 22 man roster. They needed to do this because they didn't/wouldn't/couldn't move frolik or Brodie or hamonic.

I suppose you could call it a win win but a better win win would've been not souring a relationship but holding a budding young goal scorers feet to the fire on a one year deal and then having to paying him 4 or 5 times as much on his deal a year later when all it really bought you was 5 goals in 4 months from Frolik.

Eat Bread is likelier than not to finish with more than 20 goals this year. That's going to cost the flames more than it should have IMO and impacts the ability to fill out the roster more than it should.

Me suggesting mangiapane was worth a million per on a multi year deal got me accused of not being a fan or hating treliving last summer and when it came out that the flames offered him league minimum, that they had indeed been playing hardball, there was barely a peep.

You'll have to excuse me if I get a chuckle 6 months later about how things have taken shape.

Great post here about the situation at the time:



Sometimes it's fun to have a laugh.

Why is it going to cost the Flames 'more than it should have'? Sure, for one more year, we would have gotten him cheaper, but re-signing him this summer will likely cost us less than re-signing him next summer. So it all balances out.

Now that he is a 20 goal scorer, he is going to get paid like one.

[Monahammer]

Flash does your argument rely on paying mangi more last summer? Because that results in tkachuk not playing for us this season. Baffling.

[Flash Walken]

I'm honestly at a loss on which direction to go with Janko.

[Dx54]

Signing Stone will also be a priority.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Flash does your argument rely on paying mangi more last summer? Because that results in tkachuk not playing for us this season. Baffling.

Nope, it relies on moving frolik or one of the pending ufa defenders.

Subtracting a player without a future with the org to keep a player with a future on a reasonable deal and not souring the relationship in the process. (This does not include the added benefit of signing tkachuk to term).

On a team with 2+ million in buyout penalties, not going an extra 150k on eat bread is going to cost a couple+ million.

Looking like an RFA miss for Tre. IMO, major miscalxulation, especially considering Frolik was moved just a few months later.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Dx54

Signing Stone will also be a priority.

What's that now?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Nope, it relies on moving frolik or one of the pending ufa defenders.

Subtracting a player without a future with the org to keep a player with a future on a reasonable deal and not souring the relationship in the process. (This does not include the added benefit of signing tkachuk to term).

On a team with 2+ million in buyout penalties, not going an extra 150k on eat bread is going to cost a couple+ million.

Looking like an RFA miss for Tre. IMO, major miscalxulation, especially considering Frolik was moved just a few months later.

IMO this is probably BECAUSE of the buyout penalties and the Neal/Lucic contract.

If Tre had the cap space from the UFA debacles back, he could have given Mangiapane $2mm x 3 years (or whatever) almost certainly ending up with the end years of that being a huge bargain contract.

Instead, to make up for the dead cap/overpaid ufa problem Tre has to grind him for a 1 year bargain deal, and gives up a lot of leverage for subsequent years in the process.

[Vansmack]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The issue is I think the Flames will have to qualify him - which means a raise over his current amount.
So do they not qualify him and let him walk? Probably.

Sign him before he QOs have to be issued for less money, or let him test free agency. 4th line pk specialists are actually a dime a dozen

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Nope, it relies on moving frolik or one of the pending ufa defenders.

Subtracting a player without a future with the org to keep a player with a future on a reasonable deal and not souring the relationship in the process. (This does not include the added benefit of signing tkachuk to term).

On a team with 2+ million in buyout penalties, not going an extra 150k on eat bread is going to cost a couple+ million.

Looking like an RFA miss for Tre. IMO, major miscalxulation, especially considering Frolik was moved just a few months later.

How has the relationship been soured?
Any actual evidence?

[Flash Walken]

wrong thread

[dammage79]

Yep, spend all of the monies on Lehner that you need and relegate Ritter to back up. Hes a great #2.

Then go dig up another Lindholm type player.

Then, make room for Bennett at Center. Staple Gawdin and Dube to his line for 82 games.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

There's a "cap is going up to 88.2M" thread already

but yeah

-Hall
-Bread extension (hah)
-Forbort extension
-Discuss re-signing Brodie at reasonable price if possible
-If Talbot goes, pursue Lehner/Halak

Hopefully Rittich is the one to go.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

$20 million doesn't go very far when you need to re-sign one of Brodie/Hamonic or another top 4 defensemen (5m+), give Mangiapane (2m+) a raise and sign a backup goaltender capable of playing 35 games (~3m). Then we have to sign 5-6 guys to fill out the roster still (7m+). Suddenly that 20m is not all that impressive.

Sign a backup goalie????????? For F&^%s sake who is the number one goalie?

[rooster]

[QUOTE=Lil Pedro;7403049]- Sign Brodie back from 4.5-5 million AAV...term 3-4 years. If he wants to stay here and play with Gio, he needs to accept that term and money. Otherwise, let him walk
- Trade Sam Bennett...gets $2.75 off the books. Guy does NOTHING for this teams bottom six.
- Bring back Janko at the same money he's making now; doesn't have the leverage to ask for more more. Likely headed to Arbitration, but could see the Flames walking away and letting him be a UFA
- Try to sign Mangiapaine long term..key member of the team moving forward
- Try to bring back Talbot if the $$$ make sense; will be a hard sell as he will likely want the chance to be a #1 somewhere
- Let Hamonic walk...asking for too much and is redundant on the backend
- Jury is still out on Gustafsson[/QUOTE Talbot is better then Rittich.