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Old 03-07-2020, 06:29 PM   #41
activeStick
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I feel like people really need to temper their expectations of Valimaki if they don't want to be disappointed. He was a pretty decent prospect but has now suffered two injuries which has kept him out of the majority of two seasons during very key development years. You never know, but betting on him to reach his potential after what he's been through is probably not a great bet, at least to me.
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Old 03-07-2020, 06:37 PM   #42
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Disagree, from what I have seen Hamonic is not an upgrade on Forbort. I am actually hoping the Flames bring Forbort back, he has been what I was hoping Hamonic would be when we acquired him.
I totally agree. Harmonic is attrocious with the puck on his stick. He is a warrior, and I will never question his compete, but he is a blackhole offensively and possibly worse at breaking out of the dzone.
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Old 03-07-2020, 06:57 PM   #43
Mike F
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Does anyone have advanced stats on Hamonic showing him to be a big liability?

The only regular stats I could find are that he's 3rd amongst defensemen in TOI/GP and is only -3, which is better than Hanifin and Andersson. For further comparison, Gustafsson is -2 and Forbort is -1 in the 6 games they've played with the Flames (where the team is 4-1-1 and +6 in GF/GA).
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Old 03-07-2020, 08:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
Does anyone have advanced stats on Hamonic showing him to be a big liability?

The only regular stats I could find are that he's 3rd amongst defensemen in TOI/GP and is only -3, which is better than Hanifin and Andersson. For further comparison, Gustafsson is -2 and Forbort is -1 in the 6 games they've played with the Flames (where the team is 4-1-1 and +6 in GF/GA).

Let's check it out. IMO defensive impact would be based on 5v5 on-ice fenwick against and 5v5 on-ice expected goals against. I usually look at both because

- to an extent defensemen control their ability to block shots
- expected goals is a good indicator of the shot quality / quantity you give up
- penalty kill numbers probably should be considered, but it's a lot tougher to evaluate statistically as teams that get more saves on the PK usually have worse shot numbers and vice versa. Is the player allowing fewer shots because they're killing penalties better, or because they're just being scored on so easily that other teams don't need four or five whacks? Who knows? But let's operate on the base assumption that Hamonic's been an adequate PKer, and the primary issue people have with him is at even strength.

So based on this, let's look where Hamonic ranks. For fairness sake I haven't actually looked at these numbers yet, although I did come across a concerning xGF% number for his impact since the turn of the new year but that's not what I'm about to post. So any information I'm about to post will be news to me. It's possible my eye test is wrong but let's see:

On-Ice FA/60:


Hamonic has been shelled the second-most on the whole squad. While his icetime is obviously that of a top 4 guy and he can't be directly compared with a limited-use guy like Yelesin (nor do guys like that even have much of a sample size to really look at), there's reason to think that at the very least he hasn't been as good as the four other big minutes guys Brodie, Giordano, Andersson, and his own partner Hanifin. I guess he's been better than Stone defensively, though.

On-Ice xGA/60:


Kind of the same deal. A few guys shift around but the four at the bottom are pretty decisively tied to the previous table. In Davidson's defense he's had to play his off-side and I doubt that helped.

While for some offensive defensemen we would have to factor in things like playmaking, I don't think that's really something Hamonic brings.

In his role, it's safe to say Forbort's been awesome. The team plays some serious shutdown hockey with him on the ice. Gustafsson's obviously been a beneficiary of his partner, and he's not really there for his defense. I'm not necessarily opposed to trying Hamonic in a third pair role, but I'm not convinced he'd be an upgrade over the two guys we've got there, or even Kylington whose skating erases a lot of rush chances caused by our forwards' turnovers.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 03-07-2020 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:04 PM   #45
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Confirms the “eye test” and what Islander fans where saying at the time. If I recall correctly he had taken a step back (already) and they were pretty thrilled at the trade. His advanced numbers were iffy as well.

I’m sure someone with better Google Fu and/or memory will prove me wrong.

In any case, all coaches have had an infatuation with him and Hanifin on the second pairing. Personally I don’t mind the contract, if he could play 4-5th minutes and PK, but stapling more talented players to him seems to have been a mistake.

I would most want back the picks though. A first and two seconds....
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:05 PM   #46
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^ I hope the coaches figure some of these things out
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