Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I'm sure it would be shocking how few events are held in Edmonton's new building outside of the NHL/WHL. I'd love to see the figures, but I'd bet it isn't that much more than here.

From their website's event calendar:

https://www.rogersplace.com/events/

In 2019, Rogers place has 43 non-hockey nights either in the bag, or already booked. This number will probably go up, as there are only 10 nights booked from July - December, but there were only 4 non-hockey nights in March and only 2 in April, so the number won't go up that much.

The Saddledome has the advantage of the Roughnecks, so let's discount them to start. The 'Dome has 27 non-hockey or lacross nights filled in 2019 based on their calendar: https://www.scotiabanksaddledome.com/event-calendar So, Rogers does have an advantage, even including the 7 Roughnecks dates in 2019.

Broadly, the two arenas are getting similar acts: Cher, Backstreet Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Lynard Skynard, Def Leppard, 21 Pilots and Iron Maiden are all playing both venues.

Rogers is getting Ariana Grande and - judge me all you want - she's the one name on that list I'd pay to see. Roger's also got Cirque du Soleil which filled up five nights in February.

So, overall, the difference between the two rinks comes down to pretty much Cirque du Soleil and Arianna Grande.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Will be chatting with Ryan Pike (fellow CPer Freeway) tomorrow on my podcast about the arena (and the Flames season and off season). Any questions you'd like asked?

Nothing specific that you probably won't already cover. Basically: how are things progressing, what does the funding model look like it will be, when can we expect a deal to be done, etc. etc.

When will this episode likely pop in my feed? I'll be looking for it.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by driveway

From their website's event calendar:

https://www.rogersplace.com/events/

In 2019, Rogers place has 43 non-hockey nights either in the bag, or already booked. This number will probably go up, as there are only 10 nights booked from July - December, but there were only 4 non-hockey nights in March and only 2 in April, so the number won't go up that much.

The Saddledome has the advantage of the Roughnecks, so let's discount them to start. The 'Dome has 27 non-hockey or lacross nights filled in 2019 based on their calendar: https://www.scotiabanksaddledome.com/event-calendar So, Rogers does have an advantage, even including the 7 Roughnecks dates in 2019.

Broadly, the two arenas are getting similar acts: Cher, Backstreet Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Lynard Skynard, Def Leppard, 21 Pilots and Iron Maiden are all playing both venues.

Rogers is getting Ariana Grande and - judge me all you want - she's the one name on that list I'd pay to see. Roger's also got Cirque du Soleil which filled up five nights in February.

So, overall, the difference between the two rinks comes down to pretty much Cirque du Soleil and Arianna Grande.

To water this down even further, I literally just got an email from the Calgary Flames to sell tickets for Cirque du Soleil at Stampede Park.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Nothing specific that you probably won't already cover. Basically: how are things progressing, what does the funding model look like it will be, when can we expect a deal to be done, etc. etc.

When will this episode likely pop in my feed? I'll be looking for it.

Probably by Friday.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Probably by Friday.

The RINK ANNOUNCEMENT? Oh... you mean the episode.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by driveway

Rogers is getting Ariana Grande and - judge me all you want - she's the one name on that list I'd pay to see. Roger's also got Cirque du Soleil which filled up five nights in February.

So, overall, the difference between the two rinks comes down to pretty much Cirque du Soleil and Arianna Grande.

Just because you personally wouldn't pay to see someone doesn't mean you can just ignore them.

Rogers Place also had 2 shows of Justin Timberlake in February, plus Michael Buble in April. They also have Carrie Underwood in May and Shawn Mendes in June.

Whether you like them or not, you can't deny that those are big name acts that aren't playing Calgary due to the limitations of the Saddledome.

[Toonage]

Yeah there are no 2 ways around it. Having your city ignored is never a good thing. Doesn't matter if its concerts, sports, conventions, whatever.

Forcing people out or asking them to go elsewhere doesn't benefit anyone.

[stone hands]

Forcing people to go elsewhere doesnt benefit anyone, but neither does forcing either a higher tax burden on a city where people already have their pitchforks out about taxes or re-allocating funds that could be used on other projects. I guess you need to do a cost analysis to see if the convenience for a tiny fraction of the population to not have to drive 3 hours north if they want to see ariana grande or lining bar owners pockets a few extra nights a year outweighs everything else

[Northendzone]

for nashville this type of setup makes sense. likely the same with LA and NYC. not sure if that arragenments is justifable in other cities maybe toronto.

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Sure, but you can bet this new Calgary arena won't be built like the arenas in cities like Nashville or LA, NYC etc. Venues like these are set up to be state of the art facilities for performers first and foremost, sport second. Hell, the arena in Nashville even has a dedicated test faclitiy on site where performers can set up their stages, perform and practice for tour....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Forcing people to go elsewhere doesnt benefit anyone, but neither does forcing either a higher tax burden on a city where people already have their pitchforks out about taxes or re-allocating funds that could be used on other projects. I guess you need to do a cost analysis to see if the convenience for a tiny fraction of the population to not have to drive 3 hours north if they want to see ariana grande or lining bar owners pockets a few extra nights a year outweighs everything else

How much do you estimate your taxes would go up even on a 50-50 build?

[stone hands]

death by a thousand papercuts my friend

sure it will only add a few bucks year, but thats the problem. a few bucks for an arena, a few bucks for roadway services, a few bucks for city councilors, a few bucks for etc etc etc

to answer your question though it doesnt really matter to me, any non-zero amount is more than i'm willing to pay to subsidize someone else's entertainment

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by stone hands

death by a thousand papercuts my friend

sure it will only add a few bucks year, but thats the problem. a few bucks for an arena, a few bucks for roadway services, a few bucks for city councilors, a few bucks for etc etc etc

to answer your question though it doesnt really matter to me, any non-zero amount is more than i'm willing to pay to subsidize someone else's entertainment

So that's the sum total of your position in this debate then. I just don't get why people bother arguing that point more than once.

[Muta]

I'm in favour of public funding assistance for an arena. While ideally you'd want an owner to build their own arena, I don't think it's as 'black and white' as that. Arenas do provide a public benefit and are a positive investment in a city's urban growth and continued gentrification. Arenas attract investment, development and infrastructure, which creates jobs and ultimately a wider tax base for the city.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by stone hands

death by a thousand papercuts my friend

sure it will only add a few bucks year, but thats the problem. a few bucks for an arena, a few bucks for roadway services, a few bucks for city councilors, a few bucks for etc etc etc

to answer your question though it doesnt really matter to me, any non-zero amount is more than i'm willing to pay to subsidize someone else's entertainment

The problem is that's an incredibly narrow view of the economic impact. Dollars being spent has a huge ripple effect to the economy as a whole. The list of the people affected by entertainment dollars spent is vast. Sure there are the pockets of the owners that will be lined, but so will the servers, bar tenders, hostesses, cleaning crews, food crews in the dome, parking attendants.... Never mind that now anyone who has benefitted by more money in their pockets can now go spend them at whatever other places they like to spend money. Eventually everyone benefits in some form.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by stone hands

death by a thousand papercuts my friend

sure it will only add a few bucks year, but thats the problem. a few bucks for an arena, a few bucks for roadway services, a few bucks for city councilors, a few bucks for etc etc etc

to answer your question though it doesnt really matter to me, any non-zero amount is more than i'm willing to pay to subsidize someone else's entertainment

The fact remains... this is going to be done, there will be a deal announced and there will be a new arena.

There is virtually nothing that can be done by those in opposition to stop it and there is virtually nothing that can be done by those in favor to hurry it up.

I visit this thread for updates and potential news on moving ahead with the project. Bunk's podcasts are a great add.

Reading endless posts arguing about the value of a new arena, counting shows and concert dates, whether or not folks are "willing to pay for it" (you won't have a choice) or willing to support it (you could jam your councillor's inbox with waxed poetic.. but it is really going to have impact?) is becoming more and more of a mind-numbing activity.

I'm not discouraging anyone from stating their opinion, but it's time to face facts.

[stone hands]

nvm

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by driveway

From their website's event calendar:

https://www.rogersplace.com/events/

In 2019, Rogers place has 43 non-hockey nights either in the bag, or already booked. This number will probably go up, as there are only 10 nights booked from July - December, but there were only 4 non-hockey nights in March and only 2 in April, so the number won't go up that much.

The Saddledome has the advantage of the Roughnecks, so let's discount them to start. The 'Dome has 27 non-hockey or lacross nights filled in 2019 based on their calendar: https://www.scotiabanksaddledome.com/event-calendar So, Rogers does have an advantage, even including the 7 Roughnecks dates in 2019.

Broadly, the two arenas are getting similar acts: Cher, Backstreet Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Lynard Skynard, Def Leppard, 21 Pilots and Iron Maiden are all playing both venues.

Rogers is getting Ariana Grande and - judge me all you want - she's the one name on that list I'd pay to see. Roger's also got Cirque du Soleil which filled up five nights in February.

So, overall, the difference between the two rinks comes down to pretty much Cirque du Soleil and Arianna Grande.

What does your personal opinion on music have to do with anything

The Who is a pretty big draw, one of the biggest bands of all time...not coming to Calgary

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What does your personal opinion on music have to do with anything

The Who is a pretty big draw, one of the biggest bands of all time...not coming to Calgary

I would hazard a guess that the acts that come to both sometimes scale down their show for the limitations of the venue too, FWIW.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I would hazard a guess that the acts that come to both sometimes scale down their show for the limitations of the venue too, FWIW.

Metallica has played Edmonton twice since they have been to Calgary...and the last time they went to both the Calgary show was scaled back because they were unable to place the stage dead center in the arena like they did everywhere else.

I'm sure there are other examples but I know that one to be fact


We can debate economic impact but there is no question Edmonton is getting better quality/quantity of entertainment overall

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How much do you estimate your taxes would go up even on a 50-50 build?

But that’s not the point. It’s how you prioritize this over other finding needs. Everyone asking for a buck from the city can argue the impact on individual taxpayers is immaterial.