Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Tre went out of his way to say that he would consider Brodie as part of the young core of the team (from the STH thread). Highly doubt he gets moved.

If he said that it is just reaffirming my belief that BT is not the man for the job anymore.

[Bunk]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-O’Reilly-Neal
Dube-Backlund-Frolik
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Foo

Gio-Hamilton
Valimaki-Hamonic
Kulak-Andersson

Gone: Bennett, Lazar, Brouwer, Shore, Brodie, Fox or Kylington

[dammage79]

Jesus if Ferland is on the top line RW over Neal they should fire the entire administration.

Ferland WAS the top line RW for lack of better options. not because he is THAT good.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Jesus if Ferland is on the top line RW over Neal they should fire the entire administration.

Ferland WAS the top line RW for lack of better options. not because he is THAT good.

People get way too caught up with how the lines are numbered.

Ferland has shown some chemistry with Monny and Johnny- even with picking up a new right winger it doesn't mean you shouldn't try Ferland there again. Spread the wealth, make lines 2 and 3 better so we actually have some depth. How many teams in the league put their three best forwards on the same line?

Nobody thinks Domnik Simon and Patric Hornqvist are better than Phil Kessel.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by bax

People get way too caught up with how the lines are numbered.

Ferland has shown some chemistry with Monny and Johnny- even with picking up a new right winger it doesn't mean you shouldn't try Ferland there again. Spread the wealth, make lines 2 and 3 better so we actually have some depth. How many teams in the league put their three best forwards on the same line?

Nobody thinks Domnik Simon and Patric Hornqvist are better than Phil Kessel.

The entire point of upgrading the FW's is to NOT have a bottom six player like Ferland on the top line. But now 'were going to talk about why Ferland is seriously over/under valued by parts of the fanbase.

Honestly, I don't even want to see Ferland on the team next year.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The entire point of upgrading the FW's is to NOT have a bottom six player like Ferland on the top line. But now 'were going to talk about why Ferland is seriously over/under valued by parts of the fanbase.

Honestly, I don't even want to see Ferland on the team next year.

No, upgrading the forwards is all about gaining the ability to roll 4 effective lines like all the other good teams in the NHL, and to improve the PP.

Scoring needs to come from the entire lineup, and Ferly works quite nicely with Monahan and Johnny - and Ferly could still be improving.

[GranteedEV]

Ferland was tied with Tyler Seguin and Mark Scheifele for top 75 in total 5v5 points last year.

The Flames do need to improve their forward group, particularily a RHS that can control a power play, but it's just hilarious how people think he's a 3rd liner or "don't want him on the team" next year. He was a huge part of the effectiveness of our top line, which was anything but the problem last year. Productive scorers with high levels of discipline don't just grow on trees. He's a bonafide top six forward with a skillset that happens to make Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau better players. Ferland would be more productive on a team that actually need a LHS sniper or Netfront guy on its PP, unlike a team that has Tkachuk and Monahan in those roles.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Honestly, I don't even want to see Ferland on the team next year.

Ok, that's a little much. Did he cut you off on Deerfoot or something?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Ok, that's a little much. Did he cut you off on Deerfoot or something?

Haha no. Just tired of the over valuing of a player that if he didn't play with the teams two best players would not be in a conversation for anything other than a depth role.

I love his skill. But what ruins it all for me is how stupidly inconsistent he is.
But yet poster make the excuses.

What I do know is, when we get a better winger for the top line, we will marvel at how much better life is without a depth fw filling a hole.

I want Ferland off of this team just so we can stop talking about him like he such a good player. When he's not.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ferland was tied with Tyler Seguin and Mark Scheifele for top 75 in total 5v5 points last year.

The Flames do need to improve their forward group, particularily a RHS that can control a power play, but it's just hilarious how people think he's a 3rd liner or "don't want him on the team" next year. He was a huge part of the effectiveness of our top line, which was anything but the problem last year. Productive scorers with high levels of discipline don't just grow on trees. He's a bonafide top six forward with a skillset that happens to make Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau better players. Ferland would be more productive on a team that actually need a LHS sniper or Netfront guy on its PP, unlike a team that has Tkachuk and Monahan in those roles.

^ there's the over valuing of Micheal Ferland. Right there.

Bonafide top six scorer. Jesus mary and joseph.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

^ there's the over valuing of Micheal Ferland. Right there.

Bonafide top six scorer. Jesus mary and joseph.

I humbly apologize for evaluating rationally instead of spewing baseless platitudes and grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side hyperbole.

[Corral]

I hope the team has patience to see if Jankowski can become the 2L centre next year.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I humbly apologize for evaluating rationally instead of spewing baseless platitudes and grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side hyperbole.

Evaluate rationally?
In what universe should Ferland be mentioned in the same breath as Seguin or Scheiffle? Both players carry their lines. drive them. are far more productive than ferland ever has or will. Thats hyperbole.

Ferland is a passenger on that line. Always has been. Honestly, he's the perfect 3rd line LW. Thats where he should be.

[Gaskal]

You two are describing the "Jekyll" and "Hyde" versions of Ferland, respectively. He is two different players.

When is 'on', GranteedEV is correct - he scores like a top 6 power forward. Soon after he was put with those two, he had something like 6 goals during that win streak. He has the finishing and hitting in that package too, which freed up space for Mony and Johnny.

When he is 'off', dammage is correct - he disappears entirely, goes into ghost-mode and you forget he's even playing most of the game. Occasionally also had catastrophically bad mistakes that ended up in the back of our net.

But here's the thing - no one else has seen the kind of chemistry with Monahan and Gaudreau while he is on, outside of 2014-15 Hudler. He will have his games where you're wondering why he's asleep on his feet and dragging the line down, but you accept it knowing that when the line is again firing on all cylinders, it is a top 5 in the league with the way those 3 feed off each other and find the back of the net.

I do think that unlike Gulutzan, Peters will be much smarter in managing that 1RW spot. He has a better idea of who is 'on', at a shift-to-shift basis. While I do expect Ferland to spent significant time again with those two, he will eventually drop off the map for a time and Bill will drop him down the lineup in favor of a winger who's more 'feeling' it.

Until, of course, 'Ferland' takes a seat and 'Ferkland' shows back up again.

[yourbestfriend]

Ferland has gotten better every single year since he's entered the league and he's given no reason why he won't put up better numbers next year.
Outside of some consistency issues, he was a great fit for the top line last year. GG has tried Bennett, Brouwer and Chiasson at 1RW and they've all failed to produce like Ferland did. I could care less if he's being carried by Johnny and Monahan, at the end of the day he's produced 20/20 at that spot, why are we complaining?
Even if we got another high end RWer, Ferland stays on that top line. Nobody in the NHL loads up their top lines anymore.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Ferland has gotten better every single year since he's entered the league and he's given no reason why he won't put up better numbers next year.
Outside of some consistency issues, he was a great fit for the top line last year. GG has tried Bennett, Brouwer and Chiasson at 1RW and they've all failed to produce like Ferland did. I could care less if he's being carried by Johnny and Monahan, at the end of the day he's produced 20/20 at that spot, why are we complaining?
Even if we got another high end RWer, Ferland stays on that top line. Nobody in the NHL loads up their top lines anymore.

I get the point you're making, but you're incorrectly putting Bennett there as he's never had any real stretch with Johnny and Sean.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Evaluate rationally?
In what universe should Ferland be mentioned in the same breath as Seguin or Scheiffle?

In the universe where it is a fact that he had as many 5 on 5 points as Seguin and Scheifele

Both players carry their lines. drive them.

Both players are excellent, but also play with linemates like Blake Wheeler, Jamie Benn, Alexander Radulov, Nikolaj Ehlers. They don't exactly carry their lines. Few in the NHL do.

are far more productive than ferland ever has or will.

Which is fine, and why they are both franchise player type talents. But there is a huge gap between a top six forward and a franchise player.


Fact - Ferland had just as many 5 on 5 points as Tyler Seguin and Mark Scheifele. There is no opinion in that statement. You can make an argument as to why he had fewer total points or the importance of each player on their line, but you can't make an argumenet that Ferland was as productive as he needed to be. If your third wheel on a top line is producing as top star players do, that's a top six forward. You do not need to be a an all-star to be a top six forward.

Originally Posted by Gaskal

You two are describing the "Jekyll" and "Hyde" versions of Ferland, respectively. He is two different players.

He is one player. He is streaky, just like most hockey players are.

When is 'on', GranteedEV is correct - he scores like a top 6 power forward. Soon after he was put with those two, he had something like 6 goals during that win streak. He has the finishing and hitting in that package too, which freed up space for Mony and Johnny.

When he is 'off', dammage is correct - he disappears entirely, goes into ghost-mode and you forget he's even playing most of the game. Occasionally also had catastrophically bad mistakes that ended up in the back of our net.

When he is on he scores far better than a top six forward (to the extent of his role, which is still limited). The fact that his scoring is better than a top six forward when he is 'on' is what allows him to average top six forward scoring overall, despite those off stretches you allude to. Again, he was top 75 in 5 on 5 points last year. There are hypothetically 186 top six forwards and 93 top line forwards in the NHL and I'm not even claiming he's a top line forward, I am claiming he's a top six forward.


And again, disappearing, being cold, and bad mistakes are perfectly common top six forward traits. Elite consistency is not a requirement for top six forward status. Further, elite consistency should not even be an expectation of a player who is not playing as a regular on a top PP, 4v4, 3v3, unit.

We're talking about a guy who would have been the fifth most productive forward on the Capitals. The sixth most productive forward on the Jets. The seventh most productive forward on the Knights with the caveat that he played fewer minutes than the top six scorers on the knights. This isn't a guy making hay on power play production, he's legitimately effective at ES. He brings more to the table than just production, and he's one of the most disciplined forwards in the NHL, period.

There are very, very few teams he's not playing a top six role of the sort he played last year. About the only criticism he deserves is that he can make risky breakout plays defensively, and so shouldn't be playing shutdown defensive minutes (which he's not, just as his linemates are not).

[Kovaz]

Looking at Ferland in isolation is missing the forest for the trees.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland scored the 4th most goals of any line combo in the league. They scored at a higher rate than Kucherov-Stamkos-Namestnikov, Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak, Dadonov-Barkov-Huberdeau, Perry-Getzlaf-Rakell, Wheeler-Scheifele-Connor, etc.

Are we gonna go all-in on a high-value player so we can make our brightest bright spot just a tiny bit brighter? Or do we look for a low-cost acquisition and risk picking up another Brouwer? How much room for improvement can you really find there, compared to how much potential there is to screw it up?

Our bigger weakness at RW is that after our two borderline top-6 RWs in Ferland and Frolik, there's a huge drop-off before the next best guy (Hathaway? Lazar?).

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland is the most productive line we've had since Iginla, and I wouldn't be so hasty to try to replace that.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Honestly, I don't even want to see Ferland on the team next year.

Terri-bad take.

Big bodied physical 20 goal scorer with a sinpe of a shot.

I'll entertain the notion we'd be better served not having him on the top line (subjective and debatable) but punting him from the team just for the sake of it? Sheer nonsense.

Makes the team smaller and softer getting rid of him, and removes more goals from a scoring challenged team.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I like this line of thinking. What gives me pause though, is you're essentially saying the Flames are a top six forward away. And I'm just not sure last year's results really bear that out.

Maybe I'm not convinced the players you mention make for a "formidable" bottom six. Maybe more like "adequate". And adding a top six forward doesn't make the top six formidable necessarily either.

So perhaps this team is a top six forward away from being a playoff contender, and need someone else to break out to get beyond that.

All of this assumes the defense and the incoming prospects play up to their billing.

Ignoring the line numbers and just focusing on the 12 we could roll out, even adding one top 6 guy really does help the situation:

Gaudreau-Monahan-______
Tkachuk-Backlund-Ferland
Bennett-Jankowski-Frolik
Mangiapane-Dube-Foo
Shore/Lazar

Not that it's likely to flesh out this way as FA's may be signed and we still have the unresolved Brouwer issue but even adding one guy makes our depth look a lot better.

Wouldn't it be fun to watch 4 lines like the above instead of a 4th liner on the 3rd line and 2 slow 13th forwards on the 4th line like much of last yr?