Gretz and Mario were both generational at the same time, so your argument holds no water.
Sid is generational. His points per game in the modern era set him apart. Likely the most complete player who ever lived.
Ovi is generational. No one scores goals like he does. I would argue he’s already the greatest goal scorer who ever lived when you look at average goals scored in this era vs past eras.
Lidstrom was a generational defense man. No one could do what he did since Bourque and Orr.
So there you have it. There were some very exceptional elite players over the years like Sakic, Federov, Yzerman, Malkin, Iginla, et al, but these guys aren’t quite generational. McIcetime is making a case for himself, but he has much to prove.
Monahan doesn’t enter this conversation yet, but he’s a damn fine centerman and he’s a player than you win with. So I’m happy to compare his counting stats to Iggy.
Not true.
Gretzky was the greatest of all time, and was magnitudes better than his peers. He was so far above them that there was room for Lemieux to come along and, while not being Gretzky, was still so much above the rest of the league that he was generational.
The things that Jarome Iginla did when he figured the NHL out between 2001-2013 in Calgary will forever mean more to me than any player ever. I love Gretzky, Theo, Lindros, Neuiwendyk, Crosby, Johnny, Gio among many others. But no one will ever touch Jarome. Classy off the ice, a good man, what he did on the ice. He could pass and score. He could lead by example, but the one thing that sticks with me forever is example A: Flames Sharks 2011 ish. Ryan Clowe is running around like a jack ass doing Ryan Clowe things. Jarome is older now, he may not be as much of a threat. But the fire he had, when someone needed to step in, it was him. He won that fight and I am pretty sure the Flames won that game.
Argue all you want about generational talent etc, he was rare and there will never be another player like him. He was under appreciated by us at times (especially early on and later in career ) and was under appreciated at a league level.Just read what Sheldon Souray said about Jarome on his retirement letter. Thats all you ever need to hear to know how special of a player he was and how rare.
We are lucky to have Gio who watched Jarome. He models alot of ehat he does after Jaromes mould. But even he cant do what Iggy did.
I 100% agree that the term "generational" is so overused. McDavid MIGHT end up being generational, but at this point he is most definitely not generational. I don't think Crosby is a generational talent, but he is the most talented player of his generation. There's the difference. Crosby is the most complete and talented player of this generation, but he doesn't have enough of a gap to distance himself as a clear generational player.
How do you spot a generational talent? Just take a look at the 3 top scorers every year in the league in the NSFW tags. Lemieux is a bit of an exception - you have to keep an eye out for his games played. Watching Gretzky play, watching Lemieux play - they were unquestionably so far ahead over everyone else just with the eye test. Their stats sheets prove it.
Hasek, Jagr and Lidstrom for me are all borderline generational talents. I can be swayed either way with admitting them into that category. They just completely controlled games and seemed so far ahead than anyone else. Lidstrom especially was deprived of a few Norris trophies IMO earlier on in his career, as it seemed to be more of a reputation award back then, and you had to 'earn' a Norris a few times before you actually got one. Maybe I can put Crosby at this level. Lindros - IMO - can easily be argued that into the generational category too. (And yes, I am disregarding players before the early 80's, as I did not see them playing - Howe, Richard, etc., were almost certainly generational talents, but I didn't witness their greatness on a game-by-game basis live).
Then again, this is my own personal definition. McDavid? WAY too early to call that one. If he distances himself from the rest of the league like Gretzky and Lemieux did, then I will wholeheartedly agree. If he wins 5+ Art Ross trophies in a row - I will most likely agree (unless it is painful to watch him chase points and not do much else on the ice).
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on who fits into what box. You might have excellent reasons to throw McDavid in there now, and definitely Crosby. I just like to think of it as a more exclusive club where a player seems consistently AND significantly better than everyone else for a period of time.
NSFW!
I want to show the clearly defined 'generational talent' from the year-to-year scoring leaders here. Look how often they lead (or almost lead) the season, and look by how much they lead.
Now compare the last 10 seasons: Try and find the generational talent by how consistently they lead the league, and how much they distance themselves from the rest of the pack by. You can't do it, at least not half as easy as the prior set of data above. Franchise? Elite? Hall of Famers? Yes. Generational? I argue no, but Crosby is close given the complete package that he is. I just don't see him as THAT much better than everyone else. Heck, Malkin out-shines Crosby at times all over the ice - scoring, corners, playmaking, goal scoring, etc. Ovechkin is a much more physical player and a better goal scorer (some may say a generational goal scorer, but does that make him a generational player?).
2017-18
McDavid - 108
Giroux - 102
Kucherov - 100
2016-17
McDavid - 100
Crosby - 89
Kane - 89
2015-16
Kane - 106
Benn - 89
Crosby - 85
2014-15
Benn - 87
Tavares - 86
Crosby - 84
2013-14
Crosby - 109
Getzlaf - 87
Giroux - 86
2012-2013
St. Louis - 60
Stamkos - 57
Ovechkin - 56
At any rate, Monahan is an EXCELLENT player and tremendously underrated. I really do think that if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau, that Monahan would have a lot more respect and experience a tonne of success still. Monahan can drive his own line.
Gretzky was the greatest of all time, and was magnitudes better than his peers. He was so far above them that there was room for Lemieux to come along and, while not being Gretzky, was still so much above the rest of the league that he was generational.
Lemieux was a generational talent.
Gretzky was the GOAT (a once in a century talent)
Some might argue that Lemieux - given better health - was the GOAT. I am swayed into that perspective. I really believe that Lemieux was the greatest player this game has ever seen, but had a bad back + cancer that vastly derailed his career.
I can see it both ways. Those two are #1 and #2 for me, regardless of order.
Gretzky was the greatest of all time, and was magnitudes better than his peers. He was so far above them that there was room for Lemieux to come along and, while not being Gretzky, was still so much above the rest of the league that he was generational.
Lemieux was a generational talent.
Gretzky was the GOAT (a once in a century talent)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
Some might argue that Lemieux - given better health - was the GOAT. I am swayed into that perspective. I really believe that Lemieux was the greatest player this game has ever seen, but had a bad back + cancer that vastly derailed his career.
I can see it both ways. Those two are #1 and #2 for me, regardless of order.
I'm sympathetic to this view from a pure talent perspective at least.
But then again I also am sympathetic to a third option:
The GOATS: Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux. Maybe also Richard.
Generational Players - the best players of their generation: The NHL has been in existence for 100 years, and I would say guess have been 14 generational talents. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Hull, Sawchuk, Shore, Lafleur, Esposito, Crosby, Ovechkin, Lindstrom
Crosby is one of the most complete players ever (perhaps except for maybe Howe), while Ovechkin is the best goal scorer of all time. I'm not sure how they wouldn't make the list.
Gretzky: entered league in 1980
Lemieux: entered league in 1985
Lindstrom: entered league in 1990
Ovechkin: entered league in 2005
Crosby: entered league in 2005
I think when people say Crosby and Ovechkin don't make the list its because they are only comparing them to two of the GOATS, Gretzky and Lemieux, which they are not. But they're still generational.
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The GOATS: Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux. Maybe also Richard.
Generational Players - the best players of their generation: The NHL has been in existence for 100 years, and I would say guess have been 14 generational talents. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Hull, Sawchuk, Shore, Lafleur, Esposito, Crosby, Ovechkin, Lindstrom
Crosby is one of the most complete players ever (perhaps except for maybe Howe), while Ovechkin is the best goal scorer of all time. I'm not sure how they wouldn't make the list.
Gretzky: entered league in 1980
Lemieux: entered league in 1985
Lindstrom: entered league in 1990
Ovechkin: entered league in 2005
Crosby: entered league in 2005
I think when people say Crosby and Ovechkin don't make the list its because they are only comparing them to two of the GOATS, Gretzky and Lemieux, which they are not. But they're still generational.
Who is Lindstrom?
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THIS is why people make fun of Edmonton. When will this stupid city figure it out? They continue to kick their own ass every day, it's impossible not to make fun of them.
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