[Signing] Flames sign Derek Ryan (3 yrs, $3.125 mil AAV)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Only 9 goalies make over 6M or more a year. Also, quite a few decent goalies are hitting free agency. The Flames will have 12.5M to split between Bennett Tkachuk, and a number 1 goalie. It will be difficult, but not absolutely impossible.

Plus they only have to deal with Stone and Frolik's contracts for an additional year - those kind of contracts can be moved. You might also move Hamonic in a pinch. Plus there is expansion.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Clearly, the Flames are moving some salary out this summer, and some of that may very well be tied to one of Ryan or Frolik. But again, the crucial missing point is that both are REALLY useful players. Their cap hits for this season are basically immaterial so long as they continue to be useful players. It's a huge difference from last year.

This is an interesting point. It begs the question, would we rather have that cap space spent, or for the Flames to have 8M of dead space waiting me be used. I would take effective players all season long rather than have unused room.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Clearly, the Flames are moving some salary out this summer, and some of that may very well be tied to one of Ryan or Frolik...

I think you most definatley have to trade Frolik by the offseason. Ryan won't get moved so soon after signing and is a solid FO man that can be important on any teams 4th line.

Frolik makes the most sense as Mangiapane is almost ready and there are others right behind him.

It's more difficult to determine what we should do with Stone until we see how Valimaki, Andersson and Kylington continue to develop.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Let's be clear here about one thing: The difference in player calibre between having Stajan and Brouwer sitting on the fourth line and Ryan and Frolik is exponential. I cannot even begin to express how much better it is to ice the latter than the former—so much so, that this comparison and the attempted point is virtually meaningless.

You were pretty adamant all last year that Brouwer was a perfectly fine 4th liner and it was only his salary that was the problem, no?

I want to wait and evaluate Ryan after more than 3 games before I say he is exponentially better than anyone. The Flames still aren’t getting secondary scoring yet.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes.

That is what I said.

[TheScorpion]

Frolik is so much better than Brouwer and Ryan is so much better than Stajan, plus they're both cheaper and the cap will keep going up next summer.

Smith and Stone will likely be gone. There's the room you need to sign a Bobrovsky or Varlamov.

[dustygoon]

i don't have a problem at all spending money on Ryan like this. He is an unusual talent when it comes to righty with good face-off numbers. If they pull him out 10 minutes per game for just that, i think that is fine. It's a different skill....other teams will be lacking it and gives us a leg up on one area of in-game management.

[Iggy599]

First off, it’s been 3 games... counting any new contract unworthy is way too premature. The team looks pretty good so far and well balanced. Sure we could use more scoring from new guys like Ryan and Neal but to even throw them in the mix with the likes of Stajan and Brouwer is crazy. Especially Stajan, never understood the coddling attitude towards him.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Frolik is so much better than Brouwer and Ryan is so much better than Stajan, plus they're both cheaper and the cap will keep going up next summer.

Smith and Stone will likely be gone. There's the room you need to sign a Bobrovsky or Varlamov.

And Tkachuk? It’s silly to worry about it yet but Flames have relatively little salary coming off the books next year.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

And Tkachuk? It’s silly to worry about it yet but Flames have relatively little salary coming off the books next year.

Early estimates have the salary cap for 2019-20 coming in at around $82 million. Let's assume it gets there.

Let's pencil in Tkachuk at $6.5 and Bennett at $2.0. Say Bobrovsky comes to the Flames, I can see them overpaying and going for $7.5. Let's see how that all fits in.

Gaudreau ($6.75) - Monahan ($6.3) - Lindholm ($4.85)
Tkachuk ($6.5) - Backlund ($5.35) - Czarnik ($1.25)
Dube ($0.778) - Jankowski (1.675) - Neal ($5.75)
Bennett ($2.0) - Ryan ($3.1) - Frolik ($4.3)
Extras ($1.4 - $0.7 each)

Giordano ($6.75) - Brodie ($4.65)
Hanifin ($4.95) - Hamonic ($3.857)
Valimaki ($0.894) - Andersson ($0.756)
Extra ($0.7)

Bobrovsky ($7.5)
Gillies ($0.75)

That adds up to $80.1 million, and you've only gotten rid of two roster players (Stone and Smith). Stone is internally replaced by Andersson, while Bobrovsky provides a replacement for Smith. Theoretically, the team could keep Stone and sign Varlamov for a significantly lower price as well, but why not go all out?

If you think Tkachuk signs for more, well, maybe you get rid of Frolik. Ho hum. He's still a decent piece but more than replaceable at this point, although it would be preferable to keep him.

[SeanCharles]

I just don't see Bobrovsky signing for anything under 8.5m, even then it would be a discount..

I agree that Frolik and/or Stone are the contracts we expedite in order to make room for a Tkachuk extension but I don't think signing Bob is realistic unfortunatly.

He wants Price money and no goalie is worth that, I don't care how good you are.

[Charsiu]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Early estimates have the salary cap for 2019-20 coming in at around $82 million. Let's assume it gets there.

Let's pencil in Tkachuk at $6.5 and Bennett at $2.0. Say Bobrovsky comes to the Flames, I can see them overpaying and going for $7.5. Let's see how that all fits in.

Gaudreau ($6.75) - Monahan ($6.3) - Lindholm ($4.85)
Tkachuk ($6.5) - Backlund ($5.35) - Czarnik ($1.25)
Dube ($0.778) - Jankowski (1.675) - Neal ($5.75)
Bennett ($2.0) - Ryan ($3.1) - Frolik ($4.3)
Extras ($1.4 - $0.7 each)

Giordano ($6.75) - Brodie ($4.65)
Hanifin ($4.95) - Hamonic ($3.857)
Valimaki ($0.894) - Andersson ($0.756)
Extra ($0.7)

Bobrovsky ($7.5)
Gillies ($0.75)

That adds up to $80.1 million, and you've only gotten rid of two roster players (Stone and Smith). Stone is internally replaced by Andersson, while Bobrovsky provides a replacement for Smith. Theoretically, the team could keep Stone and sign Varlamov for a significantly lower price as well, but why not go all out?

If you think Tkachuk signs for more, well, maybe you get rid of Frolik. Ho hum. He's still a decent piece but more than replaceable at this point, although it would be preferable to keep him.

We also have 900k coming off the books from the Bouma buyout (766k) and the Murphy buyout (137k) a significant enough number when you're negotiating the Tkachuk contract or fishing for an UFA goalie.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You were pretty adamant all last year that Brouwer was a perfectly fine 4th liner and it was only his salary that was the problem, no?

And I stand by that opinion. But this forward group is significantly deeper this year, and I am not convinced that Ryan's ceiling here is on the fourth line. It's a long season and I will be pretty shocked if he does not spend a good amount of time in the top-nine. Unlike last season I do not see the same issue of Ryan moving up and down the lineup like there was with Brouwer.

I want to wait and evaluate Ryan after more than 3 games before I say he is exponentially better than anyone. The Flames still aren’t getting secondary scoring yet.

Well, he skates really well and is excellent on face-offs. Those factors on their own without any offensive contributions makes Ryan a monumentally better option than both Brouwer and Stajan.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I just don't see Bobrovsky signing for anything under 8.5m, even then it would be a discount..

I agree that Frolik and/or Stone are the contracts we expedite in order to make room for a Tkachuk extension but I don't think signing Bob is realistic unfortunatly.

He wants Price money and no goalie is worth that, I don't care how good you are.

Will he get it? I am not convinced.

Heading into next year Calgary, Columbus, Colorado, Philadelphia, Edmonton, possibly Detroit or Vancouver will be in the market for a new starting goalie. Do you see one of these teams committing a $10.0 m cap hit on a long term deal to a goalie? I am not sure that I do. I agree that Bobrovsky will sign for more than $7.5 m, but I don't think any goalie is getting close to $10.0 m.

[Charsiu]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Will he get it? I am not convinced.

Heading into next year Calgary, Columbus, Colorado, Philadelphia, Edmonton, possibly Detroit or Vancouver will be in the market for a new starting goalie. Do you see one of these teams committing a $10.0 m cap hit on a long term deal to a goalie? I am not sure that I do. I agree that Bobrovsky will sign for more than $7.5 m, but I don't think any goalie is getting close to $10.0 m.

Whether it's 7.5 or 10, I doubt the Flames will be in the running, I think we are much more likely to be in the market for a lower tier goalie such as Varlamov. Ideally we would be looking for another "bridge" situation, assuming everyone in the crease from Parsons up takes a positive developmental step forward. Doubt there will be many goalies going into free agency looking for term of that nature though.

Also you can scratch Colorado off that list of definite teams looking for a starter, they signed Grubauer to a 3 year deal for a reason. It's likely he successfully segues into the full time role by season's end.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Charsiu

Whether it's 7.5 or 10, I doubt the Flames will be in the running, I think we are much more likely to be in the market for a lower tier goalie such as Varlamov. Ideally we would be looking for another "bridge" situation, assuming everyone in the crease from Parsons up takes a positive developmental step forward. Doubt there will be many goalies going into free agency looking for term of that nature though.

Also you can scratch Colorado off that list of definite teams looking for a starter, they signed Grubauer to a 3 year deal for a reason. It's likely he successfully segues into the full time role by season's end.

Right! I had forgotten that.

Even if there are positive signs from the prospects I could see the Flames making a four-year deal for a goalie, and that would be right in the ballpark for a few players. Take a look at recent UFA goalie deals and extensions, and Carey Price's contract is an outlier in term. Highly sought after Ben Bishop signed a six-year deal two summers ago.

Bobrovsky would be the target, but I would be perfectly okay with Varlamov on a four-year deal.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Says who, you?

I guess we'll see as the season goes on, but when the time comes to pay Tkachuk a substantial sum of money and figure out what the hell is going on with goaltending, I have a feeling the tune around here with regards to Ryan and Frolik making $7.5 million to play on the 4th line is going to take a dramatic turn.

Let's say Bobrovsky goes out and signs in Carolina, while the Flames go bargain bin diving with Mike Smith. Well, this is what that 'exponential' difference in depth gets you.

You make a good point, but it's not anything Treliving needs to be too concerned with right now. These are two smart players that depth has pushed to the 4th line, which I think is pretty great. As long as they're being utilized and we can afford them, that's a pretty awesome 'problem' to have. To diminish that now based on a potential issue in the future is to assume that you're thinking ahead of Treliving.

Spoiler!

Right now, Mike Smith is working towards re-establishing himself as a legitimate #1 goalie - and he did a damn good job the last game at building that. We also forget very quickly how optimistic we were last season when he solidified things back there for a bit.

We were right to be fearsome at getting too confident, and he (along with Rittich and Gillies) inevitably confirmed our fears and the warnings from Coyotes faithful. However, there were reasons they could point to that led to the decline - and they can believe that they've taken steps to prevent that this year.

TL;DR: Treliving has reason to give the current goaltending crew the opportunity to rebound this season.

Ryan and Frolik are both players that can very likely be moved pretty easily if need be as well. They are roadblocks he could very well already have a solution to if Treliving gets to the point that they are somehow blocking re-signing Tkachuk or fixing the goalie situation. I don't think it's inconceivable that Brad has a 'Frolik for X pick' standing offer from a team that is interested in him (or something to that effect).

These aren't all knee-jerk trades, even if they seem sudden to us fans.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Early estimates have the salary cap for 2019-20 coming in at around $82 million. Let's assume it gets there.

Let's pencil in Tkachuk at $6.5 and Bennett at $2.0. Say Bobrovsky comes to the Flames, I can see them overpaying and going for $7.5. Let's see how that all fits in.

Gaudreau ($6.75) - Monahan ($6.3) - Lindholm ($4.85)
Tkachuk ($6.5) - Backlund ($5.35) - Czarnik ($1.25)
Dube ($0.778) - Jankowski (1.675) - Neal ($5.75)
Bennett ($2.0) - Ryan ($3.1) - Frolik ($4.3)
Extras ($1.4 - $0.7 each)

Giordano ($6.75) - Brodie ($4.65)
Hanifin ($4.95) - Hamonic ($3.857)
Valimaki ($0.894) - Andersson ($0.756)
Extra ($0.7)

Bobrovsky ($7.5)
Gillies ($0.75)

That adds up to $80.1 million, and you've only gotten rid of two roster players (Stone and Smith). Stone is internally replaced by Andersson, while Bobrovsky provides a replacement for Smith. Theoretically, the team could keep Stone and sign Varlamov for a significantly lower price as well, but why not go all out?

If you think Tkachuk signs for more, well, maybe you get rid of Frolik. Ho hum. He's still a decent piece but more than replaceable at this point, although it would be preferable to keep him.

Does the $80.1m take into account the $1.5m for Brouwers buyout?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You were pretty adamant all last year that Brouwer was a perfectly fine 4th liner and it was only his salary that was the problem, no?

I want to wait and evaluate Ryan after more than 3 games before I say he is exponentially better than anyone. The Flames still aren’t getting secondary scoring yet.

Sometimes, people are wrong...

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Early estimates have the salary cap for 2019-20 coming in at around $82 million. Let's assume it gets there.

Let's pencil in Tkachuk at $6.5 and Bennett at $2.0. Say Bobrovsky comes to the Flames, I can see them overpaying and going for $7.5. Let's see how that all fits in.

Gaudreau ($6.75) - Monahan ($6.3) - Lindholm ($4.85)
Tkachuk ($6.5) - Backlund ($5.35) - Czarnik ($1.25)
Dube ($0.778) - Jankowski (1.675) - Neal ($5.75)
Bennett ($2.0) - Ryan ($3.1) - Frolik ($4.3)
Extras ($1.4 - $0.7 each)

Giordano ($6.75) - Brodie ($4.65)
Hanifin ($4.95) - Hamonic ($3.857)
Valimaki ($0.894) - Andersson ($0.756)
Extra ($0.7)

Bobrovsky ($7.5)
Gillies ($0.75)

That adds up to $80.1 million, and you've only gotten rid of two roster players (Stone and Smith). Stone is internally replaced by Andersson, while Bobrovsky provides a replacement for Smith. Theoretically, the team could keep Stone and sign Varlamov for a significantly lower price as well, but why not go all out?

If you think Tkachuk signs for more, well, maybe you get rid of Frolik. Ho hum. He's still a decent piece but more than replaceable at this point, although it would be preferable to keep him.

He's making 7.5 now. That's a discount for Bob.