[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by rohara66

If this arena is built anywhere other then 'downtown' I will become an Oilers fan. I'd be done.... just like the team in Calgary because it will financially fail.

no they wouldn't, they would still be better off than right now

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by rohara66

If this arena is built anywhere other then 'downtown' I will become an Oilers fan. I'd be done.... just like the team in Calgary because it will financially fail.

It won't be, fun stop. Every major city now knows the importance of a downtown arena for NHL/NBA. NFL you can get away with it due to only 8 game a year.

[Flames_Gimp]

Anywhere other than downtown or firepark would be the dumbest move in franchise history imo and csec knows it. Nobody on a work night wants a long drive home after the game!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

In my hypothetical situation I would assume the 3rd party would already be well into the negotiations with Edwards before they move on to dealing with the city. The '3rd party' could also be one or more of the current minority owners looking to take over the Edwards stake.

I see it the other way.

If you own the Arena in Calgary you have effectively bought the flames as soon as Edwards is selling it. Eventually the Saddledome wouldn’t work and the NHL won’t let the team move when a willing owner is present and you eliminate other buyers because owning the arena provides a significant cash flow.

Similar to what Kraft did with the Patriots. He bought the building and He wouldn’t let the owner out of the lease.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

My understanding is equal shares, so 25%.

Last public estimate I saw was Edwards owns 67% or thereabouts.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

I see it the other way.

If you own the Arena in Calgary you have effectively bought the flames as soon as Edwards is selling it. Eventually the Saddledome wouldn’t work and the NHL won’t let the team move when a willing owner is present and you eliminate other buyers because owning the arena provides a significant cash flow.

Similar to what Kraft did with the Patriots. He bought the building and He wouldn’t let the owner out of the lease.

Where is this magic man coming from? Who is going to front $600M to construct a new building, with hopes that Edwards will sell to them, with similar hopes the NHL would force the Flames' ownership group to sell locally? How is this new owner going to strong arm the Flames into a long-term lease with this new building? Is the City of Calgary going to do this person a huge favor and demolish the Saddledome so the Flames are forced into the new building and signing any lease put before them? That's an awful big gamble to make, and I doubt Edwards would be bamboozled into the same play that Orthwein got suckered into by Kraft in Foxboro.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Anywhere other than downtown or firepark would be the dumbest move in franchise history imo and csec knows it. Nobody on a work night wants a long drive home after the game!

Who owns the old Firepark lands - is it still Yale Investments from Montreal? has it been built out already?

If so - it might be the best option for CSEC to pursue that doesn't involve the quagmire of City politics.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Who owns the old Firepark lands - is it still Yale Investments from Montreal? has it been built out already?

If so - it might be the best option for CSEC to pursue that doesn't involve the quagmire of City politics.

I'm curious, how does the Firepark site not involve City Politics?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Where is this magic man coming from? Who is going to front $600M to construct a new building, with hopes that Edwards will sell to them, with similar hopes the NHL would force the Flames' ownership group to sell locally? How is this new owner going to strong arm the Flames into a long-term lease with this new building? Is the City of Calgary going to do this person a huge favor and demolish the Saddledome so the Flames are forced into the new building and signing any lease put before them? That's an awful big gamble to make, and I doubt Edwards would be bamboozled into the same play that Orthwein got suckered into by Kraft in Foxboro.

I think it's unlikely to play out this way, but it doesn't have to be nearly has hard as you make it out to be.

An interested party needs only to match the CSEC level of contribution of the current/dead proposal. Which includes demolition of the saddledome. And the deal structure could be different - less capital contribution from partner with a higher portion of ticket tax to the city.

Securing eventual ownership of the Flames is a whole different kettle of fish, but in the meantime this 'magic man' would get their own 'owner's suite', etc.

Of course this individual/group would need additional reasoning/benefits/alignment with their core business for it to make sense:
- entertainment/hospitality
- real estate
- branding/advertising/media
- or some other mutual back scratching with the city

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think it's unlikely to play out this way, but it doesn't have to be nearly has hard as you make it out to be.

An interested party needs only to match the CSEC level of contribution of the current/dead proposal. Which includes demolition of the saddledome. And the deal structure could be different - less capital contribution from partner with a higher portion of ticket tax to the city.

Securing eventual ownership of the Flames is a whole different kettle of fish, but in the meantime this 'magic man' would get their own 'owner's suite', etc.

Of course this individual/group would need additional reasoning/benefits/alignment with their core business for it to make sense:
- entertainment/hospitality
- real estate
- branding/advertising/media
- or some other mutual back scratching with the city

Not sure this will convince Lanny. Should've just said aliens were going to front the $600M. Would've had him hook, line, and sinker.

[Fuzz]

Isn't Firepark a reclamation project in itself? Seems less appealing than downtown.

[The Fisher Account]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to people propose alternate locations when the only reason we could possibly afford to build a new arena is due to the CRL that was specifically outlined for the Rivers District.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by rohara66

If this arena is built anywhere other then 'downtown' I will become an Oilers fan. I'd be done.... just like the team in Calgary because it will financially fail.

Well, bye.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by rohara66

If this arena is built anywhere other then 'downtown' I will become an Oilers fan. I'd be done.... just like the team in Calgary because it will financially fail.

I don’t think there is a single thing this team could do to have me say “well I guess I am cheering for Edmonton”. They could relocate and I will still hate the oilers.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to people propose alternate locations when the only reason we could possibly afford to build a new arena is due to the CRL that was specifically outlined for the Rivers District.

I don't believe the City was planning to use the CRL to fund their share of the arena under the previous agreement. The capital funding was cobbled together from various reserves according to this.

Regardless, a CRL is just an accounting trick to reallocate property tax revenues. There's nothing stopping the City from creating another CRL somewhere, or finding other sources of financing.

[monkeyman]

An arena isn’t going to be built anywhere but downtown. The city wants it there, the Flames want it there, the Calgary Stampede foundation wants it there. Nobody is building it anywhere else.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

The City has NEVER built a top line sports facility. The McMahon family built the football stadium and the Federal and Provincial governments built the Saddledome for the Olympics. Any renovations done to the Dome, including clean up after the flood were done by the Flames ownership group.

1. The McMahon brothers did not build the football stadium, they donated $300,000 toward its construction. It was developed by the City and the University of Alberta at Calgary (became the UofC in 1966). It is still owned by the UofC. The McMahons otherwise had nothing to do with the construction of the stadium.
2. The federal and provincial governments helped to fund the construction of the Saddledome, but they were otherwise not directly involved in its construction. The province and feds gave grants to the City, and the City managed the purse strings. Construction was managed by the Calgary Olympic Coliseum Society. The cost split was ~30% federal money, ~32% provincial money, ~32% City money, and the remainder nominally from the organizing committee (OCO '88). OCO '88 also paid an additional $1.5M to install seats at the press level before the Olympics; from the '83-'84 to '86-'87 NHL seasons there were no seats up there, and seating capacity was only 16,605.
3. Renovations done since 1995 have been done by Flames ownership because they paid $20M to buy out the rights to operate the facility from the Stampede board. The major renos in '94 which added the luxury boxes at the 100 level were paid for by the Flames (~2/3) and government grants (~1/3), and the Flames managed the reno. (They're the ones who demanded it in the first place...). Prior to the '94-'95 season the Stampede board managed concessions, the parking, and received a cut of the gate receipts from the Flames, and the Flames found that untenable so they paid the one-time $20M fee and have managed the facility ever since. The Flames get all the revenue from the Saddledome, and in consideration of that they're on the hook for renos. As such, if you have any complaints about the current state of the arena, it's the Flames' fault.

[The Familia]

Thanks for the summary Timun. The Flames really have done a piss poor job maintaining the building over the last 10 years.

[indes]

This is all just a ploy to get back to the inverted bowl design!

[the-rasta-masta]

Edwards selling the team is absurd, and smart guy like him would never do it IMO. Owning a professional sports team in a good market with a fanbase in any of the major sports in the world is only going to become more and more valuable and exclusive in the future.

I don't see any other sports coming out to disrupt the biggest leagues in the modern world any time soon (American Football, Football/Soccer, Rugby, Basketball, Golf, Hockey, Baseball, even Cricket?). Owning any of these franchises in the top tier leagues will become more and more expensive as tradition around the franchises continue to build. Look at any original 6 team and imagine them moving, and then think about what's going to happen in say 50 years time when the majority of teams in all the leagues have near to 100 years of history. The ability to buy any team will only be available in the destitution or death of an existing owner, as expansion will only be driven by population growth in other markets, which is unpredictable.

If you are rich, and smart, which are for the most part mutually inclusive, you are not selling a professional sports team any time soon.