[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The only issue but a major one. When people talk about driving time to other parts of the city like it's quick and easy, they forget that a large chunk of the fanbase takes transit to games so they can drink.

Build it out there and everyone is either a) spending another $40-$70 there and back for Uber b) driving and not drinking, or c) drinking and driving. Downtown is where you have to build it to avoid losing the drinking crowd...and the drinking while at a sporting event crowd is massive.

Tsuu'tina could just take all the buses that go pick up the afternoon slot machine seniors every day and shuttle people to and from the VLT on Flames buses! Party buses after the games/casino! Heck connect the new arena to the Casino via a long tunnel so I dont even have to go outside after the game in the winter to start playing! Throw in some bars and $0.15 off gas coupons for all season ticket holders at their gas stations and I am sold!

Plus you have a massive Casino parking lot for tailgating in the playoffs!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Firepark
Vulcan
Crossiron/Balzac
West Downtown
Tsuu T'ina
Seton

Only one of those locations provides a funding partner for CSEC.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If you build a new arena in the city, CSEC is definitely going to become the tenant in that arena. They don't have to own it to play in it. Perhaps they've lost their chance at owning it.

They don't want to own it. Owning it means [theoretically]: property taxes, liability for major repairs/renos, and eventual demolition costs.

Originally Posted by getbak

Two blocks north of the Saddledome, between 12th and 14th Avenues and 4th and 5th Streets.

They're not looking to reinvent the wheel, just find a way to pay for what is already approved to be built.

The location is exactly 0% of the problem here...funny how people immediately go there (though I know it's fun to sim-city it).


I've been on this forever, but I'd love to see them move it 2 blocks further north of current proposal. Swap bus-barns land with Remington and use the arena to 'bridge' the CP tracks. Closer to red/blue lines, existing parkades, and better for access/egress.

[GioforPM]

They don’t want to own it, but they do want both control and to only pay half. I don’t see a way to do that outside the city. The Nation might cede control on a long term lease. But they are not kicking in money.

[sureLoss]

There was a rumor from TSN that the Oak View Group was interested in being a 3rd party on the Calgary arena back in January.

Their recent works include the UBS arena and Climate Pledge Arena.

https://www.tsn.ca/salim-valji-signs...ions-1.1751955

[kermitology]

I would expect that any discussion of partnerships would be discussed in camera, so it's not going to be made public.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

To the points being made above, a 3rd party means someone else to share some of the rising build cost with, but for CSEC, that also means another party to share benefits with on the back end.

Will be interesting to see if the economics of the up front cost have changed enough to have CSEC open to this concept. I might not be remembering it right, but I believe the Stampede having a share of the benefits from the Saddledome events (including Flames games) originally was a huge sticking point for the Flames in the 90s until that arrangement changed some how.

Of course the important factor for all parties would be what the agreement looks like, but adding another investor given that means more sharing of benefits after construction doesn't immediately give me hope. I might be off base here, but I'm guessing CSEC didn't balk at the increased costs because they wouldn't have been able to find a way to pay for their share of the costs, I'm guessing it fell apart because the business case on pay back and benefit was starting to look un-appealing. That likely doesn't change by bringing a 3rd party to the table, but maybe I'm wrong.

[mikephoen]

A 3rd party interested in building the arena might have a plan to buy a majority stake in the Flames as well. If Edwards doesn't plan to spend much time in North America anymore, maybe his interest in owning a hockey team is waning.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

A 3rd party interested in building the arena might have a plan to buy a majority stake in the Flames as well. If Edwards doesn't plan to spend much time in North America anymore, maybe his interest in owning a hockey team is waning.

That's totally fair, but my guess would be that convo would start with the Edwards selling the team, rather than joining the build project. To you point then, it would need to be someone local who just wants to own a hockey team in Calgary, because it's not like ROI on this is going to have investors lining up with their money. There's a reason these projects are such tough go in small Canadian markets.........it's because they aren't rock solid investments. It requires a motivated owner willing to invest a bunch of money for much less return they could get investing that money elsewhere because they want to own a hockey team, or are passionate about doing so in that specific community (or both). AND it requires municipal government who believes a facility like this and having a major tenant like an NHL franchise is beneficial to growing the city an the quality of life for their residents. You need both to make it work.

For the record, I actually believe both CSEC (Edwards) and the City are motivated for the reasons above and want this project to happen, so I believe it will go eventually. The problem always comes with how to split the costs, when as a pure investment opportunity, it's not a good one without help from CSEC perspective. And from the city's perspective, articulating and calculating the benefit of having and Event Centre and a major tenant is not easy to draw a direct line to and communicate to your tax payers. It certainly doesn't help when you layer in unprecedented times in costs and likely some political difference on top of it to boot.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

That's totally fair, but my guess would be that convo would start with the Edwards selling the team, rather than joining the build project. To you point then, it would need to be someone local who just wants to own a hockey team in Calgary, because it's not like ROI on this is going to have investors lining up with their money. There's a reason these projects are such tough go in small Canadian markets.........it's because they aren't rock solid investments. It requires a motivated owner willing to invest a bunch of money for much less return they could get investing that money elsewhere because they want to own a hockey team, or are passionate about doing so in that specific community (or both). AND it requires municipal government who believes a facility like this and having a major tenant like an NHL franchise is beneficial to growing the city an the quality of life for their residents. You need both to make it work.

For the record, I actually believe both CSEC (Edwards) and the City are motivated for the reasons above and want this project to happen, so I believe it will go eventually. The problem always comes with how to split the costs, when as a pure investment opportunity, it's not a good one without help from CSEC perspective. And from the city's perspective, articulating and calculating the benefit of having and Event Centre and a major tenant is not easy to draw a direct line to and communicate to your tax payers. It certainly doesn't help when you layer in unprecedented times in costs and likely some political difference on top of it to boot.

In my hypothetical situation I would assume the 3rd party would already be well into the negotiations with Edwards before they move on to dealing with the city. The '3rd party' could also be one or more of the current minority owners looking to take over the Edwards stake.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Tsuu'tina could just take all the buses that go pick up the afternoon slot machine seniors every day and shuttle people to and from the VLT on Flames buses! Party buses after the games/casino! Heck connect the new arena to the Casino via a long tunnel so I dont even have to go outside after the game in the winter to start playing! Throw in some bars and $0.15 off gas coupons for all season ticket holders at their gas stations and I am sold!

Plus you have a massive Casino parking lot for tailgating in the playoffs!

I want to buy season tickets again if Flames move onto Tsuu'tina.

Could the nation maybe buy the team/CSEC?

It would be a hell of an attraction for the district they are building.

Lack of train station would be a bummer - but maybe they could link up with a line. Would be good for the casino too.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I want to buy season tickets again if Flames move onto Tsuu'tina.

Could the nation maybe buy the team/CSEC?

It would be a hell of an attraction for the district they are building.

Lack of train station would be a bummer - but maybe they could link up with a line. Would be good for the casino too.

It would be super convenient for me. But then, I’m very selfish.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Lack of train station would be a bummer - but maybe they could link up with a line. Would be good for the casino too.

Lol, why won't anyone think of the out of City Casinos!

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by RM14

Lol, why won't anyone think of the out of City Casinos!

Dear Mrs Flanders, I mean it a complimentary investment not that they need handouts.

[3rd Degree]

Does anyone know what percentage of the team each of the owners owns?

[zukes]

Arizona, Ottawa both don't work due to location. Hell, nobody went to London Knights games when the arena was at the south end of our medium sized city. They moved it downtown and they sell out 9,000+ basically every game for 20 years. Location matters!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by zukes

Arizona, Ottawa both don't work due to location. Hell, nobody went to London Knights games when the arena was at the south end of our medium sized city. They moved it downtown and they sell out 9,000+ basically every game for 20 years. Location matters!

Location matters. However, Glendale and Kanata are a lot different than Firepark or even on the reserve.

[rohara66]

If this arena is built anywhere other then 'downtown' I will become an Oilers fan. I'd be done.... just like the team in Calgary because it will financially fail.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

Does anyone know what percentage of the team each of the owners owns?

My understanding is equal shares, so 25%.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Location matters. However, Glendale and Kanata are a lot different than Firepark or even on the reserve.

The reserve is too far away even if it had transit, firepark would be perfect for a football/hockey combo, close to downtown and all the infrastructure is there.