09-21-2021, 09:59 AM
|
#3281
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
An argument that the Flames were not a better overall team post Hamilton trade strikes me as trying too hard to establish another Treliving mistake. Just look at what assets remain with each team. And while I know a lot of people don’t care, the Flames had their best regular season finish in years with Lindholm and Hanifin. And if it wasn’t for Lindholm, the Neal trade would have had even bigger negative impact.
|
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 10:27 AM
|
#3282
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
|
My problem with Treliving is his inability to make those franchise altering moves since that Hurricanes blockbuster. We are a bottom tier free agent destination but all of the moves since have basically been in that market.
2018- huge franchise altering summer. Hurricanes trade, Neal signing, Ryan signing, new coach
2019 - keep the band together re-signing Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane while swapping bad money in Neal for Lucic free agent swap getting Talbot and Smith heads north
2020- spending spree with Brodie, Hamonic, and Talbot out Tanev and Markstrom in
2021- Gio lost to Kraken, money spent on Coleman and Zadorov. Bunch of Sutter types because there have been 2 coaching changes since the transformational summer of 2018.
Frolik+Pelletier for Zucker - glad that one fell through
Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri - would have been a great trade but Valimaki tearing his knee would have made losing Brodie really tough. Still a win trade for the Flames
Other rumored deals:
Bennett+Hanifin for signed Hall+Vatanen - likely would have been a bad deal considering the Hall contract would have been pre-Covid
Valimaki+++ for Mark Stone - wouldn’t have made a big difference against the Avs. If he was somehow able to be signed then absolutely it would have been worth it but unless the Flames made huge cap dump moves that offseason it would have been impossible.
It has been clear the core has needed a shake up based on the last 3 years of worsnjng results. It sounds like the only way the Flames could make a change is if they were willing to get fleeced so instead it feels like we will watch core players slowly walk for little to no return and head toward a potential painful rebuild. Here is hoping the combination of players hungry to rebound, Sutter getting full buy in, and a weak division this team is able to go on a run
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Vinny01 For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 10:34 AM
|
#3283
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
You don’t get Lindholm if you don’t get Fox.
Calgary traded a top pairing D, a middle 6 winger (I would say Ferland would be labeled as a solid 2nd liner at the time), and an A prospect for a top 6 D (who is now a top line C), and a middle pairing D (who now has the reins to be a #2). All while being cost-controlled.
I know we can be mad for Fox doing what he did, but at least we capitalized on an asset that would decrease in value if we didn’t move him when we did.
The team that got boned was Carolina. Didn’t they get a confirmation from Fox that he would likely sign with them? Now they’ve got nothing from the trade, other than the assets obtained from having to deal Fox.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 10:41 AM
|
#3284
|
Franchise Player
|
At the time the contract implications were called out as a big reason for the trade being positive for the Flames. And that's played out exactly that way.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 10:42 AM
|
#3285
|
Don't click that link!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rural Alberta
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan
You don’t get Lindholm if you don’t get Fox.
Calgary traded a top pairing D, a middle 6 winger (I would say Ferland would be labeled as a solid 2nd liner at the time), and an A prospect for a top 6 D (who is now a top line C), and a middle pairing D (who now has the reins to be a #2). All while being cost-controlled.
I know we can be mad for Fox doing what he did, but at least we capitalized on an asset that would decrease in value if we didn’t move him when we did.
The team that got boned was Carolina. Didn’t they get a confirmation from Fox that he would likely sign with them? Now they’ve got nothing from the trade, other than the assets obtained from having to deal Fox.
|
The asset trail leads to Carolina having Jamieson Rees, Anttoni Honka and Noel Gunier from the trade.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:13 AM
|
#3286
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
My problem with Treliving is his inability to make those franchise altering moves since that Hurricanes blockbuster. We are a bottom tier free agent destination but all of the moves since have basically been in that market.
2018- huge franchise altering summer. Hurricanes trade, Neal signing, Ryan signing, new coach
2019 - keep the band together re-signing Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane while swapping bad money in Neal for Lucic free agent swap getting Talbot and Smith heads north
2020- spending spree with Brodie, Hamonic, and Talbot out Tanev and Markstrom in
2021- Gio lost to Kraken, money spent on Coleman and Zadorov. Bunch of Sutter types because there have been 2 coaching changes since the transformational summer of 2018.
Frolik+Pelletier for Zucker - glad that one fell through
Brodie+Jankowski for Kadri - would have been a great trade but Valimaki tearing his knee would have made losing Brodie really tough. Still a win trade for the Flames
|
So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:23 AM
|
#3287
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.
|
I did not consider them an upgrade on Talbot and Brodie who were lost for nothing
At least Tanev outperformed expectations, which was nice.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:26 AM
|
#3288
|
First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lethbridge
|
Can this all go into the "Brad Treliving needs to go" thread? I get excited seeing potential trade rumors and then click into here and see bickering about how good Treliving is as a GM.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mdubz For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:32 AM
|
#3289
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
So in your timeline there have been 4 off seasons. He's made big trades/ signings in two, counting the Hamilton trade. I consider getting the top available goalie and one of the top Dmen in UFA in 2020 a pretty big move.
|
Since the 2018 summer he has really only been able to make changes through the free agent market. Big parts of the core he had built here moved on for minimal to nothing (Brodie, Hamonic, Bennett, Gio) and he has brought in new core pieces via free agency (Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman). I think Lucic for Neal worked out really well for the Flames but it doesn’t erase how bad the Neal move turned out to be.
When we talk about the inactivity it is all post 2018 makeover. After his moves that summer I thought Treliving was bordering on being one of the elite GM’s in the league. His inability to do anything outside the free agent market has made me lose confidence
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:34 AM
|
#3290
|
First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
I did not consider them an upgrade on Talbot and Brodie who were lost for nothing
At least Tanev outperformed expectations, which was nice.
|
You think Markstrom in and Talbot out is a wash? Sure, Talbot performed well last season, but no one would have said Talbot and Markstrom are equivalent goalies when that trade was made - And I'd still easily have Markstrom over Talbot.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurwamac
you should look in the mirror and worry about yourself.. you fight for scraps in Canada - I've got it made keep tap dancing for a bunch of guys son - I've got it good where it counts boy
|
Last edited by VilleN; 09-21-2021 at 11:37 AM.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:40 AM
|
#3291
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VilleN
You think Markstrom in and Talbot out a wash? Sure, Talbot performed well last season, but no one would have said Talbot and Markstrom are equivalent goalies when that trade was made - And I'd still easily have Markstrom over Talbot.
|
That’s fine. Many people here would say that.
Both goalies have over 300 games played. Talbot has a career .915 sv% to Markstrom’s .910
I didn't use the phrase ‘a wash’. I said I didn’t view it as an upgrade.
Markstrom in, Talbot out was, then, at best a wash. You can make the case it was a downgrade, based on both career stats and last season
Or not
And also Markstrom costs 6 vs 3.66
Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 09-21-2021 at 11:43 AM.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to DeluxeMoustache For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:42 AM
|
#3292
|
Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
That’s fine. Many people here would say that.
Both goalies have over 300 games played. Talbot has a career .915 sv% to Markstrom’s .910
Markstrom in, Talbot out was at best a wash. You can make the case it was a downgrade.
|
I don’t know if I can agree with this.
But riding Rittich when Talbot was undeniably the guy was one of the worst player management decisions I can recall.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:46 AM
|
#3293
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
I don’t know if I can agree with this.
But riding Rittich when Talbot was undeniably the guy was one of the worst player management decisions I can recall.
|
You can of course disagree with my opinion on Talbot vs Markstrom all you want
But I hope you do agree that over a large sample size, .915 is better than .910
The team has made plenty of poor player management decisions
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:55 AM
|
#3294
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubz
Can this all go into the "Brad Treliving needs to go" thread? I get excited seeing potential trade rumors and then click into here and see bickering about how good Treliving is as a GM.
|
When's the last time there was a legit rumor posted in this thread? It's just a bunch of posters comparing their trade proposals.
|
|
|
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
|
|
09-21-2021, 11:59 AM
|
#3295
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
|
There hasn't been any legit rumors for a while. It's kind 9f freaky how quiet it is overall league wide.
But yeah, this threads dead with no new content to chew on. Just and endless circle.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 12:01 PM
|
#3296
|
Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
When's the last time there was a legit rumor posted in this thread? It's just a bunch of posters comparing their trade proposals.
|
What’s a legit rumour? When tv personalities compare their trade proposals?
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 12:03 PM
|
#3297
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
What’s a legit rumour? When tv personalities compare their trade proposals?
|
When it comes from the mouth of a respected journalist that covers the sport.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 12:05 PM
|
#3298
|
Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
When it comes from the mouth of a respected journalist that covers the sport.
|
You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 12:08 PM
|
#3299
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?
|
Whatever you want to call it, it's still crickets from the media and the real insider guys like LeBrun and Johnston or Serivalli.
|
|
|
09-21-2021, 12:08 PM
|
#3300
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
You understand that 99% of those are formed from following the sport intently, and not actual information that GM’s have shared, right?
|
No I don't. Some of them have connections to teams and agents.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:58 PM.
|
|