2017-18 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[howard_the_duck]

Well I think the deal is fantastic, for both sides really. The rumored cost of OG + Siakam included was much scarier than the finalized deal. I like Poetl, could be a starting C, but the least valuable of the Raps young pieces IMO. A commendable, shrewd move by Ujuri. It's a risk he didn't need to take for his own job security. This is a win now move, which I have a lot of respect for in the business landscape of sports.

With that said, I'll feel better once Kawhi reports and starts playing. Will be interesting as this will show his true colors, and agree with others that holding out and not playing would be a terrible career move for him so I don't see it.

This on its own gives the Raps a fighting chance in the East, no question. Very interested to see if there's another move coming.

[St. Pats]

Might be in the minority but I think this is a great deal. DD was taking them nowhere. Volume shooter whose playoff game and defense was sad.
Leonard is a very good two way player. Raptors just got better and they can blow it up quickly if it doesn't work.

LeBron is gone and this was the year to go for it!

[Senator Clay Davis]

I also wouldn't be surprised if Masai flips Kawhi to the Lakers for some of their young players since the Spurs would never trade him there. The protection of the first rounder (top 20 protected in 2019, becomes two second rounders in 2020) kinda suggests that. That can fast track a rebuild too, especially if you can package Ibaka/Lowry with Kawhi.

[howard_the_duck]

I also wouldn't be shocked if Kawhi is the first domino in a larger plan for Masai.

I'm fine with one and done if that's it. But MAYBE...just maybe there is a bigger play here to build a compelling case for Leonard to stay.

They still have pieces that could bring in another significant player. Masai is as capable as any NBA executive to shrewdly manage the cap and creatively build a roster conducive to accommodating multiple stars.

It's not the most likely of outcomes, I just wouldn't put it past him. If anyone is capable to pull this off, he is.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

After reading more he will have to report or he will be fined escalating amounts for every practice, game and team event missed unless he can prove a medical issue. Also I doubt he wants to miss 2 full years of ball, would kill his next contract.

Not only that, if he's healthy and simply doesn't show up, he doesn't hit unrestricted free agency:

11.3 Withholding Services.

A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have “complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder.” Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the player last played expressly agrees otherwise.

[howard_the_duck]

Best pure talent Raptor player since VC.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^^^But there aren't any real significant pieces out there to get with your best asset, DeRozan, gone. Best case is to target another 2019 UFA and see if you can get his current team to give up on signing him. And that way you've basically gone all in with the hedge being an instant tank into the top 3 next year.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Best pure talent Raptor player since VC.

Far better. Vince never flirted with a 50-40-90 season (Kawhi has twice), let alone being the best defender in the league.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Far better. Vince never flirted with a 50-40-90 season (Kawhi has twice), let alone being the best defender in the league.

I agree. Comparing full body of work, if Kawhi plays at even 80% of this level rest of his career he's the better player.

Respecting VC full body of work, a HOF player and best surefire talent the franchise has ever seen before today.

[Resolute 14]

Trade your franchise player for a guy who doesn't want to play for Toronto.

Unless they flip Leonard immediately, what's MLSE's play here? To try and kill support for the Raptors so the Leafs don't have to share the spotlight?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Best pure talent Raptor player since VC.

McGrady gets my vote but not in his prime with the Raptors obviously.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^^The play is if your choices are spend the next three years being good enough to lose in the second round, or roll the dice and take one shot at going to the Finals, a shot that allows you to get to tanking a couple years faster (which you'll almost certainly need to do anyway), take the chance. Plus while it seems highly unlikely Kawhi re-signs, it could still happen and then you have a top 3 player in his prime on your team.

[howard_the_duck]

There's also the not tanking route. If Kawhi walks, trading DeMar frees up $28M in cap space. Danny Green has a $10M expiring contract.

That's a hell of a lot of cap room to add a piece or two and keep the playoff window open.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I suspect the plan is for them to roll the red carpet out for him and try and show him how great a city Toronto is.
Value wise it seems like a really good deal.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

There's also the not tanking route. If Kawhi walks, trading DeMar frees up $28M in cap space. Danny Green has a $10M expiring contract.

That's a hell of a lot of cap room to add a piece or two and keep the playoff window open.

Yeah I can't see too many FAs rushing to join the Raps after how they just did DeMar. Especially with no other stars here.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah - the only issue with this trade was telling DD in the last couple weeks that they wouldn't trade him.

NBA stars tend to be a small, tight knit group of guys and pissing off DD with what he clearly thinks is a bit of a back stab isn't going to help them long term.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah - the only issue with this trade was telling DD in the last couple weeks that they wouldn't trade him.

NBA stars tend to be a small, tight knit group of guys and pissing off with what he clearly thinks is a bit of a back stab isn't going to help them long term.

The Spurs asking price must have come way, way down as I don't think they would have said that to DD if they didn't mean it.

And when you look at the deal, it is a pretty low price. Poeltl isn't anything, let's be honest. And the first rounder is protected all the way to pick 20.

[nik-]

I mean, I get this on a certain level, they're probably going into a rebuild anyway, and Derozan isn't going to take them over the top, but this is a really bad look. The first guy who celebrated playing there for a guy that clearly won't stay in the city. Toronto already has problems attracting players and this treatment of Derozan is definitely whirling around the league.

It's shrewd business, but it might end up costing them a lot more than they expected in future player pursuits.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^^Poeltl might not be anything (I strongly disagree), but under Pop he'll probably be borderline elite. Also, don't be surprised if DeMar turns into a 40% three point shooter in San Antonio, Kawhi was the worst rated jump shooter in his draft, and the Spurs fixed him pretty good. That's the one downside to this trade, because the Spurs are elite at developing and fixing players, this trade could look really lopsided in a few years if the Raps don't get any further with Kawhi, and he bolts in the summer.

[activeStick]

I don't think you can look at this deal with the same lens that we do in hockey trades. The NBA is a superstar league and the Raptors just traded away a star for a superstar. I understand the concern that Kawhi bolts after this year but hopefully he changes his mind after actually living in the city. DeMar is from Cali and he grew to love TO so its not impossible.

The Raptors are the clear favorites now in the east in my opinion and with Lebron out west and unlikely to make the finals with the Lakers roster as it stands and GSW in their conference, TO has a very strong chance to make the finals. Excited for this season!