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Old 02-23-2016, 11:39 AM   #881
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I hope we don't trade Backlund, he is finally coming into his own, and looks to me like a very solid 3C who can get you 20G 25A moving forward.
After his slow start (1pt in 13GP), he has 29pts over his past 45 GP...a 0.64 PPG, a 82 game pace of 53 pts....
I'm sure his number will dip if/when Bennett takes over the 2C spot...but he's still a very valuable piece, a great locker room guy who loves the community.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:40 AM   #882
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Another thing to th8nk of is when Stajan is gone, Backlund will likely be only 'Veteran' Center on the team. I think the right thing to do is to hold on to him and I hope he isnt traded.

If they have plans of moving him I would hope they have plans of bringing in another center around the same age (26-27) with a more physical upside.
At what point do we consider Monahan a "veteran"? Over 200 games played already.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:40 AM   #883
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Quick question for people who don't want to trade Backlund. If this team is going to improve, it has to be through trades as well as drafting and UFA's. If this team is going to improve at all, it has to make trades. Who from the Flames roster/farm do you think could be traded for the kind of players this team needs?
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:41 AM   #884
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I am completely in the trade Hudler for high value pick, but that's not the same as a non-core piece. The guy was our leading scorer a season ago! He's been a core piece until we couldn't afford him.
We're not building around him therefore he is not of our core pieces moving forward long term.

A guy can be your leading scorer and not be in your long terms plans. The "core" as far as I see it is a group of players you are making long term pans with. The guys who are the easy guys to pencil in for the next few years.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:43 AM   #885
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With Granlund being moved I can't see Backlund being traded unless the return is an equivalent center.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:43 AM   #886
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At what point do we consider Monahan a "veteran"? Over 200 games played already.
When he can grow proper facial hair?
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #887
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And as was pointed out, the last core guy who played a third line role that comes to mind was Gainey - on a pre-cap dynasty.

And cap troubles because you pay core guys big money, and 7 would be far too many.

helm and Abdelkader are not core. They are very useful role players who were plugged in for other departing useful role players.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #888
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It'd be a dynasty because no other team in recent history has had as many "core" players (look at Chicago - they just deleted Sharp and Saad - obviously not "core" enough"). And as was pointed out, the last core guy who played a third line role that comes to mind was Gainey - on a pre-cap dynasty.

And cap troubles because you pay core guys big money, and 7 would be far too many.

helm and Abdelkader are not core. They are very useful role players who were plugged in for other departing useful role players.
I'd say that Saad was a core guy that they were forced to move due to cap problems. They would have loved to build around Saad moving forward. Sharp again, core guy for them for years but forced to move him due to cap troubles. You gotta make hard decisions and move core guys when you win the cup. You can't keep them all. That's the salary cap. If you guys are defining "core" guys as guys who you would always keep and can never move I think that definition is pointless.

As for us, 7 core guys isn't a problem because some of them are making less than 4 million (Ferland, Bouma, Backlund, Bennett atm.)
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:49 AM   #889
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I'd say that Saad was a core guy that they were forced to move due to cap problems. They would have loved to build around Saad moving forward. Sharp again, core guy for them for years but forced to move him due to cap troubles. You gotta make hard decisions and move core guys when you win the cup. You can't keep them all. That's the salary cap. If you guys are defining "core" guys as guys who you would always keep and can never move I think that definition is pointless.

As for us, 7 core guys isn't a problem because some of them are making less than 4 million (Ferland, Bouma, Backlund, Bennett atm.)
You just questioned why I said 7 "core" guys would give you cap problems and then said cap troubles were why Chicago moved "core" guys.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #890
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At what point do we consider Monahan a "veteran"? Over 200 games played already.
200 gp and still learning/developing at 21 years old.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:57 AM   #891
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The way I see things going for 'Core' or more longer term and next couple years is
Gaudreau + Monahan
Backlund + Frolik
Bennet
Bouma + Ferland
All those guys currently bring something special to the table no one else on the team does. For me moving any of the above would be very difficult unless there is an over payment.

Second line will be taken over by Bennet as he gets better and possible line mates are already in the system in Poirier and Shinkaruk.

Defense is easy with Gio, Brodie and Hamilton
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:59 AM   #892
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so the team we currently have that is third worst in the league is mostly core guys and you wouldn't want to move them... You don't want to make changes to this team because they bring something special to the team? I'd prefer a team full of guys who bring talent and victories instead of something special but that's just me.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:03 PM   #893
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Quick question for people who don't want to trade Backlund. If this team is going to improve, it has to be through trades as well as drafting and UFA's. If this team is going to improve at all, it has to make trades. Who from the Flames roster/farm do you think could be traded for the kind of players this team needs?
At this phase of the rebuild we're still in the asset accumulation phase. Pick up as many young assets and picks as possible. Find out who your core guys are that you wanna build around.

As early as this offseason we can start to pivot and then look to move picks/prospects/redundant young players (ala Granlund) for NHLers just in their prime to supplement our core. It may not happen as quickly as this offeason but it should happen in the next 1.5 years IMO.

I mean you can trade whoever. I just think Backlund is not a guy we're "shopping" or looking to move. You can move him but it opens a hole immediately that we probably can't fill immediately. I'd be looking to build around Backs, he looks like an above average 3rd line centre and our centre depth looks great long term with Bennett, Monahan and Backlund.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:04 PM   #894
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If Backlund can land you a 1st line RW then sure, it is worth it...
Backlund is certainly not part of the problem with the Flames...
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:08 PM   #895
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At this phase of the rebuild we're still in the asset accumulation phase. Pick up as many young assets and picks as possible. Find out who your core guys are that you wanna build around.
.
You know you can't just literally pick them up. You have to give up players in order to get those young assets but if you're not willing to trade anyone except guys who aren't as good as Ferland and Bouma then you're not really going to get anyone of value and likely very late round picks then you'll be spinning your tires with the same last place team.


You don't want to just keep trading for young prospects that other teams don't want. You need to get impact players in order to improve and you won't get those for guys like Colborne or Bollig or Stajan. It's not too often that you can trade a bunch of junk to get a good young player.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:12 PM   #896
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You know you can't just literally pick them up. You have to give up players in order to get those young assets but if you're not willing to trade anyone except guys who aren't as good as Ferland and Bouma then you're not really going to get anyone of value and likely very late round picks then you'll be spinning your tires with the same last place team.


You don't want to just keep trading for young prospects that other teams don't want. You need to get impact players in order to improve and you won't get those for guys like Colborne or Bollig or Stajan. It's not too often that you can trade a bunch of junk to get a good young player.
Hopefully we can get young prospects/picks for Hudler, Russell, Jones etc... doesnt have to be Backlund.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:13 PM   #897
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so the team we currently have that is third worst in the league is mostly core guys and you wouldn't want to move them... You don't want to make changes to this team because they bring something special to the team? I'd prefer a team full of guys who bring talent and victories instead of something special but that's just me.
I think they all bring something that is needed for a team to win yes, does not mean they cannot be upgraded, or that I would be apposed to moving them, but they all provide something positive that is needed.

Everyone else can go anytime.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:19 PM   #898
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You know you can't just literally pick them up. You have to give up players in order to get those young assets but if you're not willing to trade anyone except guys who aren't as good as Ferland and Bouma then you're not really going to get anyone of value and likely very late round picks then you'll be spinning your tires with the same last place team.
Yes you can just pick them up, it's called the entry draft. And yes you can just pick them up, we just traded a tweener guy for us for a guy who has the potential to be a top two line player. And yes you can just pick them up, it's called trading your UFAs at the deadline for more picks/prospects.

At some point you've accumulated so many young players and picks that you can't have them all make the NHL so you trade them for the pieces you need. Not sure we're quite at that point yet.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:20 PM   #899
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You know you can't just literally pick them up. You have to give up players in order to get those young assets but if you're not willing to trade anyone except guys who aren't as good as Ferland and Bouma then you're not really going to get anyone of value and likely very late round picks then you'll be spinning your tires with the same last place team.
Yeah, if we're expecting to fill all the holes on this team with home-grown prospects, it's going to be a long rebuild. I hope most of our players come up through our system, if only because it's the cheapest way to build a team. But at some point we'll probably have to trade for a core piece. And that means being open to moving out assets like Backlund.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:22 PM   #900
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The thing is to up grade them, you can't just do a 1 for 1 trade. You need to add something in order to upgrade them. Say the rangers said that Hayes was available or the kings said that Toffoli was available, who would you trade to get them? Stajan, England and Colborne? No, it'll take a lot more than that because the other teams won't want over priced average players. They're going to want players with value in return. If the Kings wanted Backlund and Ferland for Toffoli, do you say no because those guys are core players and bring something special?

I'm not saying we should trade Backlund for the sake of trading him. IF there is a chance to get a legitimate top 6 RW and the other team is asking for Backlund, you do the deal. If they're asking for a guy like Brodie, you don't.

Core guys are guys you won't trade unless something drastic comes along. I wouldn't trade Monahan for Toffoli because I think Monahan is more important and part of our core.

And people are talking about Backlund like he's carrying this team. Without him would we be 29th or 30th instead of 26th?
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