Huge gap between The Great One, Super Mario and any other player I've seen play. Never watched Orr or Howe, that's before my time.
Wayne was three steps ahead of everyone else and Mario was just the perfect specimen combined with the sickest skill I've ever seen. Those guys made Jagr, Sakic, Yzerman etc. look like average players.
His highlights are interesting, A couple of his moves were similar to Tkachuck shootout moves. Also his slaps shots; His stick high up freezes the goalie momentarily and then he either fakes with a soft shot. deke or a slap shot that is high low, right side, or left but never towards the goalie.
If Wayne was born in 1987 then he'd still have gone on to be the greatest player of all time. But I don't think the gap would be nearly as large. As it stands one could legit argue 99 is the greatest athlete ever.
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Gretzky is the GOAT. All the records speak for themselves.
That said, competition in the 80s was not very good. Talent was diluted due to expansion and a lack of Europeans, physical fitness wasn't really a thing, and the goaltending was pathetic. This allowed someone special like Gretzky to absolutely dominate.
If Gretzky played today he would still be the best player but the gap would be much smaller and he would likely be winning scoring titles with 120 points instead of 200 points.
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I think Gretzkys' hockey I.Q was blown out of the water. He was great for his time. He had more time and space . 75 % of the players where plugs.
His mind was ahead of his time . I think if he played today in his prime he would still be one of the best players in the game but only equal to todays best players.
Dmen don't just aim for the big hit any more and are much better skaters. Goalies don't play 15 feet out of the net, flop around as much and are 10x more athletic. He was fast for his time but there are lots of players who are just as fast and a dozen who are faster.
He dosnt get half the stats he did in todays game . No body traimed as hard as he did back then. Now every one is pretty much is in fantastic shape. I think him today in his prime would be equal to everyone else fitness wise.
Gretzky in his prime today if he trained into days nhl would be equal and consistently battling the likes of Crosby, Ovie and Stamkos. Equal but not a tier above them.
Hes not getting %60 of these poimts into days game even with the same training as todays players.
Here is the question that your logic fails on.
If Gretzkys competition was so terrible why didn't the other elite players put up numbers anywhere near Gretzkys.
I haven't read the whole thread, but if you were not able to watch Gretzky in the 80's you missed something special. Lemieux was also an incredible talent and had his moments of being the best player in the game.
The thing about trying to compare current players like Crosby with Gretzky is that you can't do it in a vacuum. If you bring Gretzky to today's NHL, you are also bringing all the training advantages that today's players had. Hell, if you bring 80's Gretzky to the league today in the shape he was in then he takes about 3 games to find his stride and he runs away with the scoring title.
Crosby would have been great in any era, no doubt. I'm sure he would have been right there with the best in the game any time, but Gretzky was the greatest and I don't think it is really that close. The only challenger would definitely be Lemieux, but I think that the sad reality of his health issues is a factor that can't be discounted. He had a few seasons where he was the best in the game, bar none, but to elevate him to the best of all time will always be an exercise in wistful extrapolation. Lemieux had the potential to be the greatest ever while Gretzky simply was the greatest ever.
Oh, and McDavid? He's a pup. Seriously, let's talk about him in ten years or so.
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If Gretzkys competition was so terrible why didn't the other elite players put up numbers anywhere near Gretzkys.
In the 80s their was no one like Wayne. In the 90s the other elite players were putting up similiar numbers. The talent pool was limited as it was still a minor sport throughout the majority of the states. I also think the majority of 90s hockey was trash too in all fairnes lookimg back.
The players started taking the game more serious . The game evolved partly because of him. He was the Plato, the Newton, the Einstien . They watched wayne which sparked a new generation into playimg and thinking like him.
His mind was ahead of the times he was in. The world learns from the best and is armed with the knowledge thwy have sooner in their field.
If you dropped Gretzky into todays game with all the same advantages of today. I don't think he runs away every year with scorimg titles . I think it would be close every year.
I think the playng field today with all the video session and health care provided would level it out.
He would still be one of the greatest players who played but the margin would be small enough you could make a case .
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 12-12-2017 at 12:40 AM.
Coffey would have probably had around 70 points without Gretzky. Mario would have probably had around 30 more points, as a second year player, if he played on a team that didn't completely suck. Those two were on a different level than the rest of the league, it wasn't even close.
When Gretzky went to LA, Bernie Nicholls became a 70 goal scorer
Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 12-12-2017 at 12:41 AM.
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Anyway you slice it #99 was the best ever in terms of point production and seeing the game. If you look at a guy like Messier, who had Wayne as a teammate for what, 10 years and played an additional 5 seasons and was STILL nearly 1000 points behind?
Wayne saw the game at a totally different level, totally! Just last year with the Winter Classic in Winnipeg I was in pure amazement at his passing and play making skills he was making and this isn't a guy who spends a lot of time on the ice. He doesn't partake in a lot of these old timer style games etc.
The best way to answer your question is this. I believe a reporter in Nova Scotia who had covered this young local kid named Crosby asked Wayne or saw Wayne at the rink and asked for his opinion on him, Wayne was so intrigued by this kids skills that he asked to go onto the ice with him and was in amazement at the skill level. He made a statement to the effect of "This kid is going to break some of my records"
The reporter ended up writing a detailed piece on him and how he had a personal trainer and nutritionist at 13 or 14 years old, this is at a time when that stuff was mostly unheard of. I believe a year or two later Gretz invited him to attend the LA Kings informal skates that occur before the start of the season in September. I mean locally everybody knew this kid was good but when Wayne Gretzky says it, it has a certain effect.
I personally credit Crosby with changing specific aspects of the game with regards to training, nutrition and skill development for very young players. A lot of the young talent in the game would mimic him from an early age with the jersey number bearing your birth year and the fitness and workout aspect. These days the level of skill and speed coming in from some of these major Jr players is so impressive and Sid kind of started the trend in someways.
I know that players like Chelios were always big on the fitness aspect and so was Jagr but the difference with Sid was the age and the dedication that was going on. He literally had paid talent as a 13 year old and was working with a local Calgary trainer named Andy O'Brien who I believe is still with the Penguins in a sports science role.
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In the 80s their was no one like Wayne. In the 90s the other elite players were putting up similiar numbers. The talent pool was limited as it was still a minor sport throughout the majority of the states. I also think the majority of 90s hockey was trash too in all fairnes lookimg back.
The players started taking the game more serious . The game evolved partly because of him. He was the Plato, the Newton, the Einstien . They watched wayne which sparked a new generation into playimg and thinking like him.
His mind was ahead of the times he was in. The world learns from the best and is armed with the knowledge thwy have sooner in their field.
If you dropped Gretzky into todays game with all the same advantages of today. I don't think he runs away every year with scorimg titles . I think it would be close every year.
I think the playng field today with all the video session and health care provided would level it out.
He would still be one of the greatest players who played but the margin would be small enough you could make a case .
So old past his peak Wayne Gretzky was as good as any other player in the league. He was the unicorn. The reason there was no one as good as Gretzky through his prime was there was no one as good as Gretzky.
In 94 he was still 10 points clear of his competition. 91 he was 30.
In 2014 Crosby was 3 points clear, In 2007 Crosby was 7 points clear. No one in the post Jagr Art Ross has had a gap larger thanks Gretzkys worst.
It Gretzky would have any comparable player today he should have had comparables in his era. He did not.
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