Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Has Francis always been a sentence-is-a-paragraph guy like Rick Bell? Reading that format makes it seem like he's pining to take over Bell's place. Can one actually aspire to that?

The Sun has been edited that way from the beginning. If William Faulkner wrote an article for the Sun, with a sentence 300 words long, the editors would chop it into 30 separate paragraphs and make him read exactly like Bell or Francis.

There is a considerable amount of classism in the newspaper business. Tabloids were traditionally the papers of the working class, whereas professional people were expected to show their status by knowing the correct way to fold a broadsheet for reading on the train. Tabloid editors assumed their readers were illiterate. Broadsheet editors assumed their readers were literate but gullible. (You don't see this happening in the U.K., by the way, where even staid and stodgy bourgeois papers like the Times are published in tabloid format.)

You see the same attitude persisting, ridiculously, even today when it means nothing. I don't go long on CP without seeing somebody sneer at ‘Sun readers’, even though the Sun and Herald share the same publisher, newsroom, and reporters. And when someone wants to snark about Ken King, the go-to insult is that he was publisher of the Sun; never mind that he was publisher of the Herald later on.

It's amusingly foolish. I wish I could say it was endearing, but it's not.

[Strange Brew]

Franchise values are misleading when you are expecting to relocate a team. You will pay more for a team that is playoff teady out of the chutes but beyond that I think any nhl team is worth about as much as the next.

Houston wouldn’t care if it gets the Coyotes or the Canadiens.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Well according to Francis, the Flames were picking 1st OA in the 2016 draft and Bruce Boudreau is the head coach, so start buying your Houston Flames gear.

Not to mention the Stampeders as a lock to win the Grey Cup, and of course his belief that Gaudreau needed to spend some time in the AHL. He hockey media’s own George Costanza. Believe the inverse of what he writes.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Franchise values are misleading when you are expecting to relocate a team. You will pay more for a team that is playoff teady out of the chutes but beyond that I think any nhl team is worth about as much as the next.

Houston wouldn’t care if it gets the Coyotes or the Canadiens.

Uh... somehow I don't think this is accurate.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Not to mention the Stampeders as a lock to win the Grey Cup, and of course his belief that Gaudreau needed to spend some time in the AHL. He hockey media’s own George Costanza. Believe the inverse of what he writes.

I'm not sure if Francis actually believes anything. He is literally paid to be a contrarian - basically to rile people up so that they will read his articles.

He never takes a middle position, he takes one of the two extremes, and doesn't particularly care which one.

Spector (and the rest of the Oilers media) is different, he's clearly on Oilers payroll. He only has one extreme to pick from, the pro oilers extreme.

That being said, Francis has chosen the pro Flames extreme a lot recently.

[OldDutch]

Glad I got to go to Edmonton this weekend to a concert at Rogers Arena. Same line ups at washrooms and slow drink service. Liked the wide open concourse however. Really felt like a Olympic stadium. So clean it was devoid of personality.

Anyways, I would welcome an arena like that here. Just not at any cost. I just felt that whole ice district had long term boondoggle written all over it. Its a very nice area transplanted into the middle of a dumpy downtown. I have a hard time seeing people fill the hotels outside event nights.

Anyways, Francis is a boob, but he maybe on to something. Could the Flames sell to an owner who keeps the team local for a few seasons then moves? Maybe, but I can’t see it.

I think there is a deal there but the Flames will have to suck up the fact Ken King botched this royally on timing. It cost them millions. Fire King and get back to the table. If a majority of council wants it it will happen Nenshi ego or not. He’s one vote.

[HerbalMagic]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

If a majority of council wants it it will happen Nenshi ego or not. He’s one vote.

Except he has at least 3-4 lackeys that vote right along with him on everything.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by HerbalMagic

Except he has at least 3-4 lackeys that vote right along with him on everything.

Fair enough if they a lackeys, or maybe instead just share idiology? Either way I haven’t seen a big break on council from the mayor. Wasn’t the last proposal roundly rejected by all councilors?

Half hearted opertunist Big Red not withstanding, I haven’t seen a huge split on council over this. Unless I missed something?

[calf]

The pre-election council unanimously voted against the Flames' proposal, and voted I favour of releasing the City's 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 proposal (implying they we're comfortable with the deal proposed by the City)

[leah12]

Originally Posted by HerbalMagic

Except he has at least 3-4 lackeys that vote right along with him on everything.

Who? Name them, please.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Glad I got to go to Edmonton this weekend to a concert at Rogers Arena. Same line ups at washrooms and slow drink service. Liked the wide open concourse however. Really felt like a Olympic stadium. So clean it was devoid of personality.

Anyways, I would welcome an arena like that here. Just not at any cost. I just felt that whole ice district had long term boondoggle written all over it. Its a very nice area transplanted into the middle of a dumpy downtown. I have a hard time seeing people fill the hotels outside event nights.

Anyways, Francis is a boob, but he maybe on to something. Could the Flames sell to an owner who keeps the team local for a few seasons then moves? Maybe, but I can’t see it.

I think there is a deal there but the Flames will have to suck up the fact Ken King botched this royally on timing. It cost them millions. Fire King and get back to the table. If a majority of council wants it it will happen Nenshi ego or not. He’s one vote.

Location, location, location. Canadian NHL franchises are only worth more if you keep them in Canada. The Flames are no more valuable than the Panthers if you stuck them in Kansas City.

Confusing as this seems to be for the owners, the very fact that this team DOES mean something to our community is why they could get $600M for it were they to ask.

Maybe whoever Murray sells to will realize Nenshi is barely more involved with the negotiation than I am.

At some point, the people actually doing the negotiating will circle back around to one another and eventually settle on some split of the costs that more or less equals 50/50, and Calgary will get a new arena.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

At some point, the people actually doing the negotiating will circle back around to one another and eventually settle on some split of the costs that more or less equals 50/50, and Calgary will get a new arena.

I agree with you on this part. But...

If they don't, the owners could easily sell the team for over $500MM. Purchaser will also pay relocation fee and NHL owners will divide that up. The team name will change to fit whatever the new owner wants for his city. Harvey the Hound will relocate too. The citizens of Calgary are sad. They don't want to cheer for the Oilers.

At the next NHL BOG meeting in Boca Raton, expansion remains on the table after the relocation. The most attractive market for expansion at that point could very well be... Calgary! If only they had a new building...

After a short few years, a new billionaire and a new mayor propose the fantastic partnership to bring an NHL team back to Calgary. The billionaire will cough up hundreds of millions for the big NHL expansion fee. The city will provide hundreds of millions for a new downtown arena because... well... the old one is 45 years old and needs to be replaced anyway. The billionaire will even throw in $150 million towards the arena. What a great billionaire!

The citizens are overjoyed, and they have a contest to choose a new name and logo. The winning entry is... the Flames! The new mascot is... Scorch!!!

What a great city! What a great mayor!

Years later...The billionaire will continue making millions off his billions, and the new team will probably make enough money (eventually) to justify the whole expansion fee, but regardless the billionaire will be long remembered for restoring civic pride... Thanks Billionaire!

The new mayor has an unfortunate situation related to inappropriate behaviour with a twenty something intern that occurred in a Cowboys Stampede Tent over thirty four years ago. The mayor resigns, but she will always be remembered as the mayor who brought the Flames back to Calgary! Thanks Mayor!

Unfortunately the team has little success on the ice. Ever since Vegas won the cup in its first season, the NHL decided that expansion rules should be much more restrictive. The team manages a pathetic .350 winning percentage. Worse than every team in the league except Edmonton.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but does anyone else get the vibe Francis' Christmas bonus check was cut by CSEC?

None of this is surprising. Sir Eric is going to be pumping gas if the Flames up and leave town just like all the other local sports media.

When CSEC has to stoop to motivating journalists to regurgitate the same baseless jargon that the educated public has already diffused, you know the pendulum has already swung. Don't be surprised if we hear CSEC has come back to the table by the turn of the calendar. The Ken King bluff has amounted to a lackluster shart.

[Northendzone]

I thought that eric's article was fine. His opinion is that that the flames need a new arena, so that is what he writes. I would think that most regula posters on here have a position on this topic and they like write to support their position and I don't see them as schills for one side or the other.

the reality appears to be that right now we are at least 5 years away from a new arena being built and played in.....the flames owners are getting older, perhaps one day they will want to cash out and right now I am not certain there are any other local guys who have $650 million laying around to buy the team and even if they did, would they want to spent it knowing that a new building isn't in the future.

if the team gets sold to a guy who lives somewhere else (like Houston) to buy them, then to me it would make sense that he would want to move the team.

meanwhile at city hall, if nenshi wants to negotiate a deal on a new arena, he is not showing it.

I still think bettman would be loathe to move a team away from Canada, but what do I know.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Glad I got to go to Edmonton this weekend to a concert at Rogers Arena. Same line ups at washrooms and slow drink service. Liked the wide open concourse however. Really felt like a Olympic stadium. So clean it was devoid of personality.

Anyways, I would welcome an arena like that here. Just not at any cost. I just felt that whole ice district had long term boondoggle written all over it. Its a very nice area transplanted into the middle of a dumpy downtown. I have a hard time seeing people fill the hotels outside event nights.

Anyways, Francis is a boob, but he maybe on to something. Could the Flames sell to an owner who keeps the team local for a few seasons then moves? Maybe, but I can’t see it.

I think there is a deal there but the Flames will have to suck up the fact Ken King botched this royally on timing. It cost them millions. Fire King and get back to the table. If a majority of council wants it it will happen Nenshi ego or not. He’s one vote.

Am I the only one hear that thinks that King is just the puppet/mouthpiece for the rest of the Flames organisation? You all talk like he is the one calling the shots for the Flames whereas I don't think that's the case at all.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Am I the only one hear that thinks that King is just the puppet/mouthpiece for the rest of the Flames organisation? You all talk like he is the one calling the shots for the Flames whereas I don't think that's the case at all.

I do (think that's the case)... I mean exactly how much time do you think Murray Edwards is devoting to CSEC (vs. how much he devotes to CNR). I absolutely think that King calls the shots. He reports to ownership, runs major issues past them, and he may have them step in every once in a while but I 100% believe that King calls the day to day business shots in the company.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

None of this is surprising. Sir Eric is going to be pumping gas if the Flames up and leave town just like all the other local sports media.

When CSEC has to stoop to motivating journalists to regurgitate the same baseless jargon that the educated public has already diffused, you know the pendulum has already swung. Don't be surprised if we hear CSEC has come back to the table by the turn of the calendar. The Ken King bluff has amounted to a lackluster shart.

Call me cynical, but what I'm seeing right now is a bigger push on the community efforts of what the Flames foundation does to pull at the heart strings a little more. Maybe they always do that this time of year, but to me, it seems to be coming from a different angle this year.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Am I the only one hear that thinks that King is just the puppet/mouthpiece for the rest of the Flames organisation? You all talk like he is the one calling the shots for the Flames whereas I don't think that's the case at all.

Are you the only one? I'm pretty sure that's his actual job description. He is 100% the voice of the owners.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Am I the only one hear that thinks that King is just the puppet/mouthpiece for the rest of the Flames organisation? You all talk like he is the one calling the shots for the Flames whereas I don't think that's the case at all.

I believe this also. I am sure ken has boundaries of stuff he can make the call on (like switching vendors for popcorn), but I would have to believe that anything material (like a new arena or a position on a contentious issue) he is told what to do/say by Edwards and friends.

as for how much time murray spends on the flames vs CNR - who knows. I would think as a somewhat low profile owner of a pro sports team, he likely does not spend much time on a daily basis unless there is a big issue. I'd assume he gets a monthly email providing the financial summary of the team, and likely gets a few emails from Bettman - but otherwise I'd assume there is not a lot for him to do generally speaking.

[bubbsy]

Seems lots of media heads countering francis' article and argument.