CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[sun]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It seems to be a lot of the disdain towards the original announcement was due to the underwhelming concept pictures. That's fair because even the staunchest supporter of the project would have liked to see something more revealing than what looked like very rough renders. The fact of the matter though is that having a large fieldhouse connected to a world class arena is an innovative idea and details like the glass roof (I believe this idea came from the new Minneapolis field) on the field house are cutting edge facility design. If done right I have no doubt that Calgary NEXT would be the "awesome and innovative the arena proposal" King said it would be but it seems King and the Flames owners really underestimated how easy the populace can be swayed by concept renders. I'm sure if they could do it again they would have got a studio to crank out some glossy futuristic concept that would have had nothing in common with the final project if they knew that concept renders mattered this much in swaying taxpayers.

If they didn't know how much concept renders matter to convincing taxpayers to drop some serious coin on a sports complex... well they are treating this more like a humanities paper than Flash apparently is.

Good advertising convinces people pay for things - what a novel concept!

Edmonton's renderings and current live view (wow, it almost looks like the renderings. I thought this wasn't possible). Calgary Next renderings had people milling around on Bow Trail for crying out loud. There's a difference between expecting a "finished product" and this rinky dink presentation by KK and the Flames after TEN YEARS of development.

The brothers muta can talk down to the us unwashed masses all they want. Subjectivity doesn't come into play here. The announcement was botched, plain and simple.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Muta - basically the project is in fetus stage, and some people are disappointed that the baby wasn't in HD, high resolution final product when the ultrasounds were presented. Then they were upset that the ultrasound didn't show what the baby would look like as an adult.

Tough crowd indeed.

Shouldn't have been bragging about your ugly baby then.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by sun

The brothers muta can talk down to the us unwashed masses all they want. Subjectivity doesn't come into play here. The announcement was botched, plain and simple.

Where did I do that?

[sun]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Muta - basically the project is in fetus stage, and some people are disappointed that the baby wasn't in HD, high resolution final product when the ultrasounds were presented. Then they were upset that the ultrasound didn't show what the baby would look like as an adult.

Tough crowd indeed.

Laughable bull plop of a post.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

The renders certainly don't show such a roof. I think at most that was thrown out as a "we could do this.. maybe".

The decision to have an indoor stadium better have some innovative details around it, because basically there hasn't ever been one in the history of mankind that didn't suck and fail.

I may be recalling badly due to advanced age, but I thought the transparency in the rendering was just to show the inside and wasn't meant to be a glass roof or anything.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Muta - basically the project is in fetus stage, and some people are disappointed that the baby wasn't in HD, high resolution final product when the ultrasounds were presented. Then they were upset that the ultrasound didn't show what the baby would look like as an adult.

1) It's quite pathetic that this project is at the "fetus" stage considering they've been talking about it for almost a decade.

2) Professional developers and architects use high resolution renderings to bring people on board all the time. When you're trying to extract half a billion dollars out of the public, you better bring your A game. The supermodel "adult" version of the baby is exactly what they needed to show.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Shouldn't have been bragging about your ugly baby then.

Where am I bragging? I don't like the publicly-released rendering. I have made that very clear multiple times.

Basically it boils down to two things people take issue with:
- The renderings (which are being interpreted as the final version).
- Ken King's amateur presentation.

Then there is the idea of having a field house/arena/stadium combination made into a sports district. If that doesn't get people excited, then this really is a tough crowd. I think some people are losing sight of the fact that we are proposed to get something like this; how it comes about will be an entirely other issue that has well documented public frustration.

When I look at places like Melbourne, one of the premier cities in the world, and they have a fantastic sports district, you can't help but get inspired.

Let me ask this - does anyone here hate the idea of a proposed sports district with all the fixings proposed in inner city Calgary?

[Regorium]

Well Ken King finished his luncheon. Interested to see how the media will spin it.

Basically the entire thing was all fluff - talking about how Edmonton and Detroit did it. How everyone funds sports arenas. How amazing the vision is etc.

Basically my angry posts several months ago about how they expect the city to front everything? 100% true.

Just to try to fit in with the current pissing match, no new renderings or anything like that either.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Muta

Where did I do that?

vvv

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Like I said, there are people who cannot decipher the difference between concept and reality. This is one of those instances.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Muta - basically the project is in fetus stage, and some people are disappointed that the baby wasn't in HD, high resolution final product when the ultrasounds were presented. Then they were upset that the ultrasound didn't show what the baby would look like as an adult.

Tough crowd indeed.

Originally Posted by Muta

If you expected a extremely unique project, likely projected to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, to be completely bulletproof and seamless in its design from day one, then I don't know what to say. Maybe adjust your expectations. This isn't a $500 tool shed being built here. Also, it isn't your money or project, so if your ideas are so much better, maybe get involved somehow?

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Haha no, I compared your asinine attitude towards construction projects to that of a first year humanities paper. But nice spin job, doc.

You clearly have little concept about complex construction projects.

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm sorry, but what were you expecting? A finished design right off the bat? If so, you might not fully understand how design and construction projects work. And that's okay, not everyone does.

If you don't like the concept that was released, that's a matter of your own opinion. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Concept =/ Reality.

I think there are posters on here that are having a hard time deciphering the difference.

Also, not liking a design is a matter of opinion. Personally I don't like the renderings either, but a field house / arena concept is a great idea IMO.

Originally Posted by Muta

Wow, tough crowd.

If you think a massive, connected arena / stadium anchoring the revitalization of an outdated district is underwhelming, I don't know what to say. You may not like the design or the renderings that were released (I'm not the largest fan of them either), but to have a single building that combines our city's sports facilities is pretty special. It's rarely been done anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Muta

That was a tongue in cheek comment as a simple response to sureLoss' post, and you couldn't figure that out?

[nik-]

the lack of self-awareness is spectacular

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Where am I bragging? I don't like the publicly-released rendering. I have made that very clear multiple times.

Basically it boils down to two things people take issue with:
- The renderings (which are being interpreted as the final version).
- Ken King's amateur presentation.

Then there is the idea of having a field house/arena/stadium combination made into a sports district. If that doesn't get people excited, then this really is a tough crowd. I think some people are losing sight of the fact that we are proposed to get something like this; how it comes about will be an entirely other issue that has well documented public frustration.

When I look at places like Melbourne, one of the premier cities in the world, and they have a fantastic sports district, you can't help but get inspired.

Let me ask this - does anyone here hate the idea of a proposed sports district with all the fixings proposed in inner city Calgary?

I can boil this down to two points:
1) People here said they saw the drawings/plans etc and it was amazing
2) The Flames presented something that would get a failing grade in a high school marketing course.

The expectations were set by posters here of something amazing and then we get something weak. You have to be able to understand why they are taking these 'amazing new renders' with a grain of salt.

[Ozy_Flame]

I love this thread - always good fun.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Table 5

2) Professional developers and architects use high resolution renderings to bring people on board all the time. When you're trying to extract half a billion dollars out of the public, you better bring your A game. The supermodel "adult" version of the baby is exactly what they needed to show.

Right, I agree, the renderings aren't terrific. I even have my personal opinions about the design, always have. But the cool thing was the concept of having a 'sports district' itself, and I didn't expect people to be so hard up about not having 'the' final design completed. Regardless, I'm excited to have something like this in my city, no matter how it ends up getting designed and built.

[nik-]

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Regorium

KK just confirmed that he wants the 250M ticket tax to be fronted by the city.

Originally Posted by Regorium

From what I'm hearing, KK has brought zero new information to the lunch. Basically repeating the same talking points as before.

Originally Posted by Regorium

Well Ken King finished his luncheon. Interested to see how the media will spin it.

Basically the entire thing was all fluff - talking about how Edmonton and Detroit did it. How everyone funds sports arenas. How amazing the vision is etc.

Basically my angry posts several months ago about how they expect the city to front everything? 100% true.

Just to try to fit in with the current pissing match, no new renderings or anything like that either.

Thanks for the eye's on the ground update.

So nothing new except what we already figured (CS&E wants the city to front the ticket levy money).

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Muta

Where did I do that?

You are now the target if internet "outrage" it doesn't matter what you said or how you said it....unfortunately.

Not saying you're right or wrong....just saying.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by sun

vvv

That's insane. First of all, half those posts aren't mine, and second of all, you've taken my posts completely out of context. Amazing what you consider being 'talked down' as.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Muta

That's insane. First of all, half those posts aren't mine, and second of all, you've taken my posts completely out of context. Amazing what you consider being 'talked down' as.

I fail to see how they've been taken out of context.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Muta

That's insane. First of all, half those posts aren't mine, and second of all, you've taken my posts completely out of context. Amazing what you consider being 'talked down' as.

I group you two together as the same person in my mind. One posts, the other follows, it's tough to keep it straight. Not out of context, I quoted the full posts. Do you not see how every post follows the same pattern? "If you expected this to be perfect, you are not as smart as I am".

No one expected perfection, so stop assuming we did. What we did expect was something that doesn't look like a rendering I could have whipped up in SketchUp over the weekend.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't think I've ever said how amazing it will look, especially with what was released.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...7&postcount=33

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, you're only half joking. The renderings are, indeed, amazing.

Muta certainly did, and frankly, it's tough to tell you two apart since you always have the same opinion about every possible subject, defend each other no matter what, and generally act like the Daniel and Henrik of CP.

Or course, if - for once - you want to say Muta was wrong and full of cow-processed grass ejecta, please, surprise us all.