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View Poll Results: Do you support the current version of CalgaryNEXT?
Yes 163 25.39%
No 356 55.45%
Undecided 123 19.16%
Voters: 642. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-09-2016, 01:59 PM   #581
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:00 PM   #582
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The funny thing is they needed good renderings just to get people to consider the possibility of tax dollars for this. Given how disastrously this whole thing has been bungled, why would anyone want their tax dollars in the hands of the people planning this mess? I think CalgaryNEXT is basically dead as a viable project, and the Flames would be wise to focus on an arena only if they want any public money. King should of course be fired but we'll see how that goes.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:00 PM   #583
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:01 PM   #584
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That was a tongue in cheek comment as a simple response to sureLoss' post, and you couldn't figure that out?

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Old 03-09-2016, 02:02 PM   #585
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As much as I enjoy the back and forth about he said she said, let's keep this about CalgaryNext. I for one can't wait for the city to stop whining and signing the dotted line. As much as everybody says the Flames don't deserve any civic funding I think they are just as deserving as the next person.

Calgary tends to lose sports teams due to lackadaisical fans (ie. Calgary Cannons and Calgary Storm). I would hate for one day to see the Flames added to that list due in large part to a very stubborn mayor who hates pro sports

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Old 03-09-2016, 02:02 PM   #586
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #587
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Well Ken King finished his luncheon. Interested to see how the media will spin it.

Basically the entire thing was all fluff - talking about how Edmonton and Detroit did it. How everyone funds sports arenas. How amazing the vision is etc.

Basically my angry posts several months ago about how they expect the city to front everything? 100% true.

Just to try to fit in with the current pissing match, no new renderings or anything like that either.
Thank you for providing actual information, little new as it may be, unlike the two pretenders. Sorry, two who "can't say"
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #588
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #589
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That was a tongue in cheek comment as a simple response to sureLoss' post, and you couldn't figure that out?

That wasn't tongue-in-cheek, I don't know how you interpret things that way.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #590
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Wow, tough crowd.

If you think a massive, connected arena / stadium anchoring the revitalization of an outdated district is underwhelming, I don't know what to say. You may not like the design or the renderings that were released (I'm not the largest fan of them either), but to have a single building that combines our city's sports facilities is pretty special. It's rarely been done anywhere else.
Yeah, it would be exciting if there was anything close to a professional presentation, or anything resembling a coherent plan/strategy to get it built & funded.

That's what people are upset about. The fact that it took years of announcements about how announcements were coming and all we got was a crappy rendering and a VERY broad strokes concept. Sure the concept is cool, but it really took that long to come up with it?

With the time it took to get to this point, and the way KK and you were constantly talking up how awesome it was going to be, I think people expected more than a presentation that was basically just being told "Hey look at this great idea. We don't have details, but it's gonna be great." It was the same things we've been hearing for 5 years, but this time it had a basic sketch, and some hand waving on funding.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:05 PM   #591
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That was a tongue in cheek comment as a simple response to sureLoss' post, and you couldn't figure that out?

brb, adding this to the list.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:06 PM   #592
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That wasn't tongue-in-cheek, I don't know how you interpret things that way.
It was tongue-in-cheek, I couldn't see how that would be interpreted any other way. If you didn't I feel sorry for you.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:06 PM   #593
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Guys, maybe we just don't understand the proposal. Let's just let Ken King present the presentation 10 more times before we make up our minds. After all, this is a complex process and we should allow them the opportunity to continually hit us over the head with their proposal.

In all seriousness, I hope that next month the remediation report comes back and the projected cost is in the hundreds of millions. Then the CMLC and the City can say that every lot and block is required in the WV for them to sell and collect CRL to pay for remediation and infrastructure upgrades.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:07 PM   #594
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Right, I agree, the renderings aren't terrific. I even have my personal opinions about the design, always have. But the cool thing was the concept of having a 'sports district' itself, and I didn't expect people to be so hard up about not having 'the' final design completed.
I'd be much more confident with that statement if it was someone like CMLC in charge, not Ken King. The guy has no planning/development experience, and thus there's nothing there to be back up his claims. The architects might do a masterful job, but at the end of the day they are working within parameters set by the client...parameters which to me feel poorly thought out. That comes from the top.

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Regardless, I'm excited to have something like this in my city, no matter how it ends up getting designed and built.
I don't think this is one we can whiff on or leave it to chance. If the Flames want to build in the West Village, it has to be done right because so many other things are affected. The riverfront, bike paths, Bow Trail, the tax base, possible Olympic aspirations, and the entire viability of West Village. It's all tied together.

I still think the Flames are better off just building a hockey stadium on/near the Stampede grounds. I know it may not fit into their scheme to get free cash/land, but I don't see them pulling CalgaryNEXT off as-is.

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Old 03-09-2016, 02:09 PM   #595
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As much as I enjoy the back and forth about he said she said, let's keep this about CalgaryNext. I for one can't wait for the city to stop whining and signing the dotted line.
I'm sure when CS&E presents a deal that's worth investing in they will (the current plan however is not that deal).
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:10 PM   #596
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I'd be much more confident with that statement if it was someone like CMLC in charge, not Ken King. The guy has no planning/development experience, and thus there's nothing there to be back up his claims. The architects might do a masterful job, but at the end of the day they are working within parameters set by the client...parameters which to me feel poorly thought out. That comes from the top.



I don't think this is one we can whiff on or leave it to chance. If the Flames want to build in the West Village, it has to be done right because so many other things are affected. The riverfront, bike paths, Bow Trail, the tax base, possible Olympic aspirations, and the entire viability of West Village. It's all tied together.

I still think the Flames are better off just building a hockey stadium on/near the Stampede grounds. I know it may not if into their scheme to get free cash/land, but I don't see them pulling CalgaryNEXT off.
Table - you know I respect your opinion. Just wanted to say thank you for the mature response in this thread, it's a breath of fresh air.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:11 PM   #597
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The renderings have Cammalleri and Iginla banners hanging from the roof. Couldn't even bother to update them. That should tell you all you need to know about the effort put into this project.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:11 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame View Post
That wasn't tongue-in-cheek, I don't know how you interpret things that way.
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It was tongue-in-cheek, I couldn't see how that would be interpreted any other way. If you didn't I feel sorry for you.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:11 PM   #599
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KK just confirmed that he wants the 250M ticket tax to be fronted by the city.

Called that one pretty easily.
It's rather self-evident that the Flames need someone else to front the ticket tax. If the Flames do it themselves, then the NHLPA argues that the "tax" is merely a fiction designed to hide revenue and would accuse the team of circumventing the CBA. If someone else pays at the front end, the team would have an easier time justifying the tax as something separate from the ticket price.



As far as the ongoing battle with the Brothers Muta, you guys are trying to hold an indefensible position. Nobody believes that the first public rendering is what the final product will be, but everybody deserved something far better than that embarrassingly amateur rendering. The Flames completely effed up, and it has dramatically harmed their chances of gaining the necessary public support.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:14 PM   #600
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It was tongue-in-cheek, I couldn't see how that would be interpreted any other way. If you didn't I feel sorry for you.
Dont feel sorry for me. You're the messenger delivering bad news; maybe you deserve the voracious response you're getting.
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