Sam Bennett as a center or winger?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

*sigh*

The problem with this thread is it's based on an eye test that doesn't match what actually happened on the ice. It is biased by OP's opinion. So every isolated incident that fits the narrative gets magnified. Every event that does not fit the narrative gets forgotten or ignored.

Here are some relevant individual stats for our centers:



Based on the shot attempts he has taken, Bennett has been the second most likely to score a goal (ixG60) for every minute on the ice, has less giveaways than Monahan, and a better faceoff percentage than Monahan.

OP also suggested he is being "thrown to the wolves" and not sheltered. The data disagrees:



Bennett has not had the worst quality of teammates (Stajan, Backlund, and Monahan have by the different metrics). Nor has he had the highest quality of competition (Monahan has faced the best defensemen and Backlund has faced the best forwards.). Nor has he been forced to start in the defensive zone the most and offensive zone the least (Stajan has).

On a line level, the Tkachuk-Bennett-Brouwer line has been the Calgary Flames' most effective line as a result:



They have generated the most shot attempts and unblocked shot attempts, they've taken shots closest to the net, they've had the highest expected save percentage (xFSV% / defense), the lowest expected goals against (xGA60 / defense) and as a result of all these things, are the only line on our team close to even in high danger scoring chances (SCF%) and the only line actually expected to score more goals than they allow based on the shots being taken when they are on the ice (xGF%).

TL;DR:

Maybe they're not a top line yet, but they have not been deployed like one. The way they have been deployed, they have been successful in terms of creating chances AND preventing them. Goals will follow. They will make mistakes, but nothing so far suggests they are a line that needs to be broken up or that Bennett is unsuccessful at center. If Bennett is "getting caught" so often then why are his defensive metrics the BEST on the Calgary Flames?

This advanced stat post was made in November and was thanked 27 times.

This is why I have zero respect for these advanced stats. The eye test is all I needed to see Bennett wasn't playing like a center and was struggling. Now more and more people are realizing how much he is struggling at center. If you didn't watch the games and only read the post above youd think he was playing better than Backlund which has never been the case and definitely isn't the case now.

Soemtimes watching the games beats any fancy corsi stats or pdo or whatever silly name they've come up with now.

[GranteedEV]

"The problem with this thread is it's based on an eye test that doesn't match what actually happened on the ice. It is biased by OP's opinion. So every isolated incident that fits the narrative gets magnified. Every event that does not fit the narrative gets forgotten or ignored."

Don't need advanced stats to reiterate that OP is overreacting. Also not surprised this was bumped only after one of Bennett's worst defensive games of the season.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

This advanced stat post was made in November and was thanked 27 times.

This is why I have zero respect for these advanced stats. The eye test is all I needed to see Bennett wasn't playing like a center and was struggling. Now more and more people are realizing how much he is struggling at center. If you didn't watch the games and only read the post above youd think he was playing better than Backlund which has never been the case and definitely isn't the case now.

Soemtimes watching the games beats any fancy corsi stats or pdo or whatever silly name they've come up with now.

You see what you want to see.

You've shown over and over you have little understanding of the game, misconstruing simple rules, guaranteeing suspension will be given out based on your skewed and erroneous view of the game etc.

You also have wild and reaching theories made as snap judgements that you then proclaim to be proven as fact because of coaching / management decisions when there's clearly no such relation.

Advance stats are to be taken with a grain of salt, but they're still leaps and bounds better than your "eye test".


The only things that remain the same from November until now are that Sam Bennett is a 20 year old kid in his sophomore season.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Calm down fella

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Im not that worried about it, and I understand why management want him as a centre. Here's our current center depth:

-- Backlund (#1 Centre)
-- Monahan (Struggling #2 Centre)
-- Bennett (developing center/#3 center)
-- Stajan (4th line)
-- Jankowski (center prospect)

After that it's bone dry. To win in this league you need a 1-2 punch and good centre depth.

For the first year, Backlund is a legit #1 centre in this league. His 2nd year campaign was worse than Bennett's. Hell, offensively Backlund's 5th & 6th year wasn't much better than Bennett's current. Right now there's no panick to decide Bennett's fate one way or the other, however, without him in the center rotation there's a panick to draft and obtain centre depth, much unlike to the overabundance and easy-to-obtain winger depth the Flames have.

If Bennett and Monahan continue to struggle next season, then there's cause for worry. This is their first coaching and system change at the NHL level, and Bennett's first position change. And we're winning games and both guys are putting up some points. Just wait it out.

Good points especially the reference to Backlunds struggles which included some unfortunate injuries. BT has emphasized that the burden is not on one player to be the hero or savior for the team and it seams even with Johnny and Monahan that there is more emphasis on playing as a five man unit. We still see the occasional individual efforts but more focus seems to be on team play which is why I think Bennett is still struggling. The Backlund, Tkachuk, Frolic line seem to have this figured out and play a very strong game as a unit. Now if we could just get the other lines to play the same way consistently it could give some other teams nightmares! The fact that Tkachuk is so unselfish and complements the other 2 is probably a big component in what drives that line.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

"The problem with this thread is it's based on an eye test that doesn't match what actually happened on the ice. It is biased by OP's opinion. So every isolated incident that fits the narrative gets magnified. Every event that does not fit the narrative gets forgotten or ignored."

Don't need advanced stats to reiterate that OP is overreacting. Also not surprised this was bumped only after one of Bennett's worst defensive games of the season.

Your post was completely wrong. The stats you posted to make Bennett look like he wasn't struggling were far fetched and didn't fit the eye test. He was struggling defensively then and still is now.

Edit: in regards to your edit. He had one of his worst defensive games of the season last night? Could have fooled me, he has been bad all season long defensively.

[GranteedEV]

Your post was completely wrong. The observations you posted to make Bennett look like he was struggling were far fetched and didn't fit the eye test. He wasn't struggling any more defensively than anyone else his age then, and still isn't now.

[GoJetsGo]

According to Calgaryblood, he isn't just struggling defensively (as a 20 year old sophomore... for context)... he's "the worst defensive player on the team with no idea where to be in his own zone".

Because you know, everything and everyone is "terrible", "awful" and "the worst". No middle ground.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dabrit

Bennett was playing Center in the OHL have people forgotten this?

He played wing and center in Kingston. His draft year, he was used mostly a center, but when you look at a lot of his highlights from that year, he often attacked like a winger.

It's not that uncommon for a center in junior to become a winger at the NHL level. I always felt like Bennett was a good candidate to move to the wing based on how he plays.

[GranteedEV]

BTW, the main thing that changed for Bennett since early season wasn't his defense, it's his offense as without Tkachuk he hasn't generated any. Which is more re-inforcing my earlier point that Tkachuk-Bennett were doing well together, than disproving it. Tkachuk has benefitted Backlund on the shut down line too. I don't doubt Bennett's success would multiply with Tkachuk.

[calgaryblood]

Can someone tell GoJetsGo he is on ignore and I'm not reading his whiny posts. Probably has a few eye-rolling emojis sprinkled all over his posts as well.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

BTW, the main thing that changed for Bennett since early season wasn't his defense, it's his offense as without Tkachuk he hasn't generated any. Which is more re-inforcing my earlier point that Tkachuk-Bennett were doing well together, than disproving it. Tkachuk has benefitted Backlund on the shut down line too. I don't doubt Bennett's success would multiply with Tkachuk.

I think if Bennett was more like Tkachuk in terms of playing with his linemates we would see better results. Put Bennett with Backlund and Frolic we would still see some of the same struggles unless he committed to play the same way they do.

It is probably just a maturity issue that will work itself out once Bennett finds a unit that plays together and complements each other. Tkachuk, Backlund and Frolic have some amazing Chemistry driving the play, supporting and finding each other in open spaces.

[Wolfman]

Bennett has proven to be better on wing with less responsibility. Let him fly up and down the wing creating chances and hitting. He plays better when he is physical.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

BTW, the main thing that changed for Bennett since early season wasn't his defense, it's his offense as without Tkachuk he hasn't generated any. Which is more re-inforcing my earlier point that Tkachuk-Bennett were doing well together, than disproving it. Tkachuk has benefitted Backlund on the shut down line too. I don't doubt Bennett's success would multiply with Tkachuk.

Solution to all the Flames' woes: clone Tkachuk.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Bennett has proven to be better on wing with less responsibility. Let him fly up and down the wing creating chances and hitting. He plays better when he is physical.

Besides Marcus Granlund most players are better on the wing then at center. Don't mean to be uncouth but that's not really exclusive to Sam Bennett.

[calgaryblood]

BUMP.

So almost a full season after this thread was started I still think it's painfully obvious he should be a winger for at least the short term.

He seems lost as a Center and doesn't know where to be on the ice and is being caught out of position forcing him to take dumb penalties.

I'm really hoping Jankowski comes up and plays center and Bennett gets moved to the wing.

[Itse]

I don't agree on "painfully obvious", but I think it's absolutely worth a shot, especially as it would also open a good spot for Jankowski as the 3rd line center.

[Vinny01]

If they are going to out Bennett on the wing I think he should get a very extended look with Monahan and Gaudreau. Alternatively Tkachuk could move to the top line and Bennett could go back to the Backlund and Frolik line. If Bennett is going to be a wing he needs to be in the top 6

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Versteeg-Jankowski-Jagr
Ferland-Lazar-Brouwer

[Tyler]

I'm at the point where I've resigned myself to the fact that we gambled on Bennett being a high-impact player at the #4 spot and lost.

I'm also extremely excited that we lucked out and got Tkachuk, so the Bennett bobble doesn't sting as bad.

If Bennett turns it around, then great. From what I've seen since he joined the Flames though, I'm not holding my breath.

[TheFlamesVan]

^ he is 21 years old! A couple generational talents have really ruined everyone's patience with player development.