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Old 09-01-2020, 09:18 AM   #21
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I do like this premise for ranking however. Adding in young players that have graduated gives a better perspective of truly "young" teams, vs teams with good prospects that haven't graduated their players yet.
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Old 09-01-2020, 09:19 AM   #22
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I am mystified why people continue to ignore the reason why the Flames have moved up Pronman's rankings so much, even after several clear explanations...
Because I missed it, and started the topic with the information missing.

Anyone that has responded to the first post without reading the rest would respond accordingly.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:46 AM   #23
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I do like this premise for ranking however. Adding in young players that have graduated gives a better perspective of truly "young" teams, vs teams with good prospects that haven't graduated their players yet.
I am fine with it too but he's got to change the name then as it is no longer a prospect/farm system rating but a youth rating.

He sure does fall in love with a lot of small skilled guys but at least gives you an idea of who might be worth late round gambles in his draft previews.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:49 AM   #24
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He's got the Flames at least top 14 as I see he has the Wild at 15 today. I'm pretty surprised actually.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:52 AM   #25
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I am fine with it too but he's got to change the name then as it is no longer a prospect/farm system rating but a youth rating.

He sure does fall in love with a lot of small skilled guys but at least gives you an idea of who might be worth late round gambles in his draft previews.
He calls it "top young players in hockey and our 2020 ranking of the NHL organizations’ young talent"
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:20 AM   #26
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Well I think the only on roster players we’d have in there is Tkachuk and Dube so if he rates Dube highly than that could help us. Everyone else misses the age cutoff date.
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:36 AM   #27
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Well I think the only on roster players we’d have in there is Tkachuk and Dube so if he rates Dube highly than that could help us. Everyone else misses the age cutoff date.
Tkachuk is almost certainly a top 3 pick if you were to re-draft that year.

I think it's likely that the leafs are #1 due to Matthews and the Flames are top 3 or top 5 because of Tkachuk.

If the Flames still had Fox they'd be #1.
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:37 AM   #28
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IIRC Pronman had Adam Fox rated very highly which turned out be pretty accurate. Maybe that's his MO and favors small puck moving D.

Ultimately a ranking of "young" players is more informative than a ranking of the farm system. I suppose the farm ranking gives you an idea of help on the horizon that is not currently on the big club but this way you can factor in continued improvement from your young players as well.

So who are these young players for the Flames?

Tkachuk, Dube, Valimaki then maybe Wolf, Pelletier? Mackey just misses the age cutoff by three days.

Is that enough to be top half in the league? He must be awfully high on a couple of these players. Tkachuk is a certainty but he's far from the only great young player in the NHL.
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:48 AM   #29
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Tkachuk, Dube and Valimaki make for a great top 3, but things get fairly thin after that. If you're counting all players 22 and under, pretty much every team has at least a couple of studs.

I would expect that we'll see the Flames pop up pretty soon on the list - between 10 and 14 would be my guess. I thought we would have seen the Flames listed already, to be honest.
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:51 AM   #30
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It's basically just a rank of draft years 2016-2019

If you've got a top 5 player from any of those drafts you're going to perform well in this ranking, if you've got a top player in multiple years you will do very very well.

The Flames have Tkachuk, Dube and Valimaki, who even though he's missed time due to injury, the games he actually played illustrated he has excellent potential to be a top end player.
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Old 09-02-2020, 09:54 AM   #31
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I take back my earlier comment and seems Mackey would be included as he is under 26 and hasn't played the requisite NHL games.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Avs at the top with Makar and Byram leading the way.

I'm sure Canucks will be near the top too.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:00 AM   #32
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I think Pronman is high on Nikolayev, Zavgorodiy, and Emilio Pettersen so that would bump us up a bit.

Pelletier had a pretty good D+1 season too. Wolf was named the best junior goalie in the country.

Phillips and Gawdin had pretty good AHL seasons. Mackey was highly touted as a college UFA.

Then you have Tkachuk, Dube, and Valimaki at the pro level already.

So Flames may not have the high, high end pieces outside of Tkachuk. But some decent depth in the pool for sure.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:03 AM   #33
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Just for fun, I did a quick comparison of the Flames and Oilers for those drafts (16-19), looking at top 10 picks, 1st round picks, and top 100 picks.

Flames: 1, 3, 8
Oilers:.. 3, 4, 14

Despite that, the Oilers' best players from those picks are arguably Yamamoto and ... Puljujarji? Broberg?

Meanwhile, the Flames have Tkachuk, Dube, Valimaki and also drafted Fox, ALL of whom I would rank above Yamamoto.

lol
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:07 AM   #34
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Flames: 1, 3, 8
Oilers:.. 3, 4, 14
Help me out, here. What are these numbers?
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:09 AM   #35
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Help me out, here. What are these numbers?
top 10, 1st round, top 100
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:09 AM   #36
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Mackey was generally regarded as the top college free agent this year. I know that previous Flames college signings (e.g. Foo, Lamb, BVB, etc) didn't turn out but Mackey is a different level of player than those, and is probably the equivalent of the team adding a 1st round (late) level of prospect to the cupboard.
Important signing.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:10 AM   #37
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so the Oilers had 3 top 10 pickjs, 4 1st round picks, and 14 top 100 picks, over the course of those 4 drafts.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:27 AM   #38
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Mackey was generally regarded as the top college free agent this year. I know that previous Flames college signings (e.g. Foo, Lamb, BVB, etc) didn't turn out but Mackey is a different level of player than those, and is probably the equivalent of the team adding a 1st round (late) level of prospect to the cupboard.
Important signing.
Yeah, the Mackey signing went a bit unheralded due to when it was signed (...doomsday and all that), but he was THE college UFA this year.

Frank Seravalli's take is here

This kid will be in the NHL next season, and I don't think it's crazy to think it will be full-time.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:41 AM   #39
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Mackey was generally regarded as the top college free agent this year. I know that previous Flames college signings (e.g. Foo, Lamb, BVB, etc) didn't turn out but Mackey is a different level of player than those, and is probably the equivalent of the team adding a 1st round (late) level of prospect to the cupboard.
Important signing.
Signings like this are massive especially when you have been trading picks.
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Old 09-02-2020, 10:49 AM   #40
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Yeah, the Mackey signing went a bit unheralded due to when it was signed (...doomsday and all that), but he was THE college UFA this year.

Frank Seravalli's take is here

This kid will be in the NHL next season, and I don't think it's crazy to think it will be full-time.
"with 5 pending UFAs... and no other prospect knocking on the door"...

very good article otherwise, though
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