BARCELONA (Reuters) - Spanish riot police burst into polling stations across Catalonia on Sunday, confiscating ballot boxes and voting papers to try to halt a banned referendum on a split from Spain as Madrid asserted its authority over the rebel region.
Police broke down doors to force entry into voting stations as defiant Catalans shouted “Out with the occupying forces!” and sang the anthem of the wealthy northeastern region. In one incident in Barcelona, police fired rubber projectiles.
Catalan officials said 337 people had been injured in the police crackdown. Officers in riot gear hit people with batons and forcibly removed would-be voters, including women and the elderly, from polling stations.
The referendum, declared illegal by Spain’s central government, has thrown the country into its worst constitutional crisis in decades and deepened a centuries-old rift between Madrid and Barcelona.
Spanish national police have stormed ministries and buildings belonging to Catalonia's regional government to put a stop to the region's independence referendum.
The Guardia Civil, which acts with the authority of Madrid's interior ministry, is searching for evidence regarding the planned 1 October referendum on Catalan independence, which Spain's Constitutional Court has declared illegal.
In the early hours of the morning armed officers arrived at various Catalan ministries, including the economy department, foreign affairs department, and social affairs department, Spanish media reports.
Catalonia to hold referendum on independence from Spain in October
At least twelve Catalan officials are said to have been arrested, including the chief aide to Catalonia's deputy prime minister, Josep Maria Jové. The arrests come as the mayors of Catalan towns who back the referendum were yesterday questioned by state prosecutors.
Pro-independence crowds have formed outside the regional ministries in support of the provincial government and in protest against the raids and searches.
Speaking at lunchtime Carles Puigdemont, the president of the Catalonian government, said the Spanish government had “de facto suspended” home rule in the province.
And because it's 2017, Russians are suspected to be involved in creating this mess. You can google that yourself.
The whole backstory is long and complicated. This is a huge story worth following, as it will have ramifications in European politics far into the future. However, in the modern media landscape it's better to be cautious in believing any one version of why this is "actually" happening. There's a lot of local, national and international politics at play here.
I would however say this:
I think Catalonia will serve as a wake up and a reminder to many that even "free democracies" really, really don't like separatism. Or in other words: nationalism and democracy are two values that don't always mix nicely.
I'm kind of torn on this whole thing. I hate that independence movement, and I love Spain as a country.
On the other hand, clearly this is the wrong reaction. They should have just allowed the vote to happen and then ignored it, since it's illegal anyway. Independence support wasn't growing, but they've ensured another generation of it.
I think it's safe to say Madrid has handled this disastrously.
Very likely if they had done what UK did with Scotland they would have gotten the vote they wanted. The Catalonian independence movement wasn't that popular, and that's without a proper campaign to turn opinions to Madrids side.
IIRC the polls have suggested opinions were something like 40-60 against independence to begin with. Now, who knows.
What Madrid is doing is how you create political chaos and give birth to terrorist movements.
I was watching a few videos this morning, riot police kicking people in the head, throwing women down some stairs onto other people, grabbing people by the hair, etc. Kind of surreal and sad to watch.
Isn't the main thing that the constitution doesn't allow for any of this type of succession? So holding a referendum means nothing given there is no criteria or threshold set in terms of %, eligibility, etc. Thus Spain sees the vote as illegal and meaningless?
I'll draw an analogy to the referendums held in Donbass and Crimea as somewhat similar cases, where you had self-imposed referendums, but without a framework for the process or clear legitimacy to the vote, you can't really take it as a binding vote. You end up with all the "STAY" votes staying home because they don't take it seriously (or fear violence, or want to protest its legitimacy), and thus the vote results look like massive support for succession.
Laws could be changed to allow a referendum if needed.
But yes, the simplest course would have been to just ignore the vote as illegal, and point out the simple fact that it's meaningless because the other side doesn't see it as legitimate.
Police violence is insanely stupid and completely unnecessary. Catalonia was not about to secede violently.
Donbass and Crimea are not analogical, those were hostile takeovers by a foreign army.
Donbass and Crimea are not analogical, those were hostile takeovers by a foreign army.
I disagree, the referendums held in those locations were somewhat similar; while, of course, the precursors are different, but on the votes themselves, they were all ultimately meaningless legally and just served to embolden both sides.
Sad to see the heavy handed response by Madrid which is only going to embolden the separatists.
I can see why the Catalans want independence having a distinct culture and language. There is also still resentment from the Franco era and belief the rest of the country is holding them back economically. The Spanish on the other hand cannot allow an independent Catalonia as the Basques would be next and soon the entire country would split up.
This crisis shows that the current post Franco system of a central government with semi-autonomous regions is not working. Perhaps a Spanish federation under a new constitution could be a solution.
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The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
This crisis shows that the current post Franco system of a central government with semi-autonomous regions is not working. Perhaps a Spanish federation under a new constitution could be a solution.
The local left have exactly this as one of their significant political goals. Many of them are very sceptical of the current independence movement.
As the Baix Llobregat area south of Barcelona began to industrialise, hundreds of thousands of Spaniards abandoned the countryside in search of a better life up north. The factories and housing estates became a crucible of leftwing politics and to this day the cinturón rojo has never voted for nationalist candidates.
Quote:
All four dismiss the independence movement as a distraction from more pressing social issues, claiming it has proved a useful smokescreen for the Catalan government’s spending cuts.
“What’s happening now is that everyone has been told that Spain is the origin of our problems,” says Salas. “They are being fed a version of Catalan history that has nothing to do with reality and this has radicalised young people around independence.”
“There’s been a sort of mantra, that Spain is robbing us, and there’s a lot of confusion, as though the Spanish government and the Spanish people were one and the same,” Jiménez says. “With a prime minister like Mariano Rajoy it’s very easy for everyone to oppose the government.”
The Baix Llobregat has its own history and none of the four feels included when politicians talk about “the Catalan people”, they say.
Most on the left are also not at all surprised by the violent methods of the police, because they know from experience this is how the Spanish police likes to operate.
Here's some video of the police handling anti-austerity demonstrations in Madrid in 2012.
(The video brought to you by Russia of course, because it fits with their general political message.)
I'm kind of torn on this whole thing. I hate that independence movement, and I love Spain as a country.
On the other hand, clearly this is the wrong reaction. They should have just allowed the vote to happen and then ignored it, since it's illegal anyway. Independence support wasn't growing, but they've ensured another generation of it.
Why do you hate the independence movement? I like Spain too, but its current borders were set by violent takeover by feudal governments, and somewhat recently. Since then, they "standardized" a Spanish language that really has no historical presence in many areas of Spain. Catalan is defined as a dialect of Spanish, but not related to Spanish in any way.
Spanish and Catalan are both western romance languages, saying they're not related in any way is silly. This is effectively the same thing as Quebec with a little greed thrown on top.
500 years since a merger with Castille and 300 years since it was finalized. Hardly somewhat recent.
Spanish and Catalan are both western romance languages, saying they're not related in any way is silly. This is effectively the same thing as Quebec with a little greed thrown on top.
500 years since a merger with Castille and 300 years since it was finalized. Hardly somewhat recent.
I'll concede "not related in any way" is far too strong of a phrase. However, Catalan is far more closely related to French than Spanish. It evolved independently from Latin, and is not a dialect of Spanish.
It's also not the same as Quebec, as Canada goes to great lengths to preserve the French language, and Quebec remains in Canada by choice. If Canada all of a sudden declared Quebecois French a dialect of Canadian English and began to take steps to assimilate the French, what kind of reaction do you think you'd get?
Also, what "greed"? Catalan seems, unlike many other parts of Spain, to be a functioning democratic and capitalist state. Meanwhile Spain, overall, is falling into the same trap as Greece and becoming a welfare/socialist state.The rest of Spain is in big trouble economically and more or less supported by supplying cheap labour to other EU members, a situation that is slowly but surely coming to an end.
Sorry, are you speaking of Franco days? Where is this suppression of their language happening? It's a load of BS. The King can even speak Catalan. Additionally, a large part of the Catalan independence movement is based on them not wanting to punch above their weight economically in the country and have the money dispersed. They contribute a little more than their population should warrant and therefore don't want to act like a part of a country.
Sorry, are you speaking of Franco days? Where is this suppression of their language happening? It's a load of BS. The King can even speak Catalan. Additionally, a large part of the Catalan independence movement is based on them not wanting to punch above their weight economically in the country and have the money dispersed. They contribute a little more than their population should warrant and therefore don't want to act like a part of a country.
At the end of the day, many of the people of Catalon just aren't Spanish. These is even more true of the Basques, who of an ethnicity that likely predates the arrival of modern Europeans into Europe. Spain also seems to be using a lot of the classic tricks to suppress these populations: underestimating populations, disproportionate government spending/taxes, and suppression of independence movements. Spain also went through a bloody civil war in the 1930s, the Catalonians were on the side of the democratic government, which lost. This lost led to 40 years of suppressive fascist rule. This isn't ancient history; Franco's rule ended in 1975.
The simple truth of the matter is that most of the modern European states are relatively new inventions, largely coming into creation 100-300 years ago. The standardization of their languages, which largely define these states, happened during a similar time period. Many of these states came into existence via military conflict and have only been democracies for a few decades. So it's no wonder that these independence movements aren't just going away.
And Albertans aren't British Columbians who aren't Quebecers who aren't Newfoundlanders. Different cultures make up many modern states. There was a lot of regions on the side of the government in the Civil War. Madrid fought the Nationalists longer than Catalonia did. Yes, Franco tried to suppress Catalan and Catalan culture, but he's been dead for 40 years. They've been an Autonomous Community for 38 years. Effectively they can freely speak their language and live their culture, but they're part of a bigger state and because they have to contribute, they want out.
Spain violently stops Catalonian vote for independence
