Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So shall we trade six or seven pieces for Eichel when the Sabres are only asking for four? ’Cos that's what the crowd has been calling for.

What’s the difference between 4 pieces and 6 pieces if Eichel ends up being an elite superstar. The difference is negligible. Does it matter if you pay 100K or 110K for your BMW? I know for certain that 5-10 years down the road, you won’t even remember exactly what you bought it for.

The incremental difference rarely ends up making a difference in the long term. You want to own Bitcoin. You’re willing to buy it at 30K but not at 40K. Does it matter at either entry point when it will be 400K in 10 years?

Or what if you end up losing everything. Would it matter? likely not.

You do what it takes to acquire an asset for your organization that you are really high on. Penny pinching is a bad negotiation tactic. What if you lose out on Eichel? What are your alternatives? Likely none. The cost of losing out on Eichel for this organization is much higher than any other outcome IMO.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

What’s the difference between 4 pieces and 6 pieces if Eichel ends up being an elite superstar. The difference is negligible. Does it matter if you pay 100K or 110K for your BMW? I know for certain that 5-10 years down the road, you won’t even remember exactly what you bought it for.

It certainly makes a difference if you spend $100,000 or $150,000, as that extra $50,000 can buy things worth having.

In the same way, if you trade six pieces instead of four, you are depriving your team of a couple of potentially very useful players.

The incremental difference rarely ends up making a difference in the long term. You want to own Bitcoin. You’re willing to buy it at 30K but not at 40K. Does it matter at either entry point when it will be 400K in 10 years?

Interesting that you should choose Bitcoin as an example. You could as easily have chosen tulip bulbs in 17th-century Holland.

Or what if you end up losing everything. Would it matter? likely not.

Tell you what, you lose everything you own and tell me how little it matters to you.

You do what it takes to acquire an asset for your organization that you are really high on. Penny pinching is a bad negotiation tactic. What if you lose out on Eichel? What are your alternatives? Likely none. The cost of losing out on Eichel for this organization is much higher than any other outcome IMO.

No one player is ever essential to a winning team. You're fixated on Eichel and believe that there are no alternatives, because you want exactly that kind of a player and have hypnotized yourself (with much help from other posters) into the belief that the team cannot possibly win without him.

If you trade so much for Eichel that you leave him with a supporting cast as bad as he had in Buffalo, you will get the same results as Buffalo. He's not a miracle-worker.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If by ‘depth forward’ you mean ‘second-line LW who scored 12 points in 22 playoff games and was an intimidating physical presence riding shotgun for Nieuwendyk and Loob’, sure.

Underselling him a bit, but not a stretch to say he was in the bottom half of the forwards on one of the better teams of all time. His linemates in Calgary were mainly Nieuwendyk, Fleury and Makarov. All guys who are either in the HOF or should be, any current Flame would be so lucky

Am I wrong about the next 20 seasons of his career?

I'm not even trying to disparage Roberts, he was a great player

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It certainly makes a difference if you spend $100,000 or $150,000, as that extra $50,000 can buy things worth having.

In the same way, if you trade six pieces instead of four, you are depriving your team of a couple of potentially very useful players.



Interesting that you should choose Bitcoin as an example. You could as easily have chosen tulip bulbs in 17th-century Holland.



Tell you what, you lose everything you own and tell me how little it matters to you.



No one player is ever essential to a winning team. You're fixated on Eichel and believe that there are no alternatives, because you want exactly that kind of a player and have hypnotized yourself (with much help from other posters) into the belief that the team cannot possibly win without him.

If you trade so much for Eichel that you leave him with a supporting cast as bad as he had in Buffalo, you will get the same results as Buffalo. He's not a miracle-worker.

You missed the entire point of the post by fixating on trying to undermine generalities. I used general terms to make an overall point which was that the most important things when it comes to asset acquisition is whether or not you really truly want the asset.

Once an organization has determined that they want Jack Eichel and that’s it. Then whether they give up 4 pieces or 6 pieces is irrelevant. I’m going based off the assumption that most of these pieces will be futures and thus the incremental impact on the current roster will be negligible.

You can haggle a car salesman because they can always just make you another. There’s only one Jack Eichel and Buffalo has got him. Sometimes if you really truly want a player, you pay whatever it takes to get it done. This franchise does not have an elite 1st line center in the past 30 years. I’m sure fans would be able to forgive and forget if the Flames “overpaid” which is a relative thing anyway and very hard to judge in this circumstance.

Tomorrow - if the Flames traded 5x 1st round picks for Eichel. I have a feeling majority of fans would be OK with it. And at the end of the day - the fans are the ones who buy the tickets so management should have a barometer for that.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

You missed the entire point of the post by fixating on trying to undermine generalities. I used general terms to make an overall point which was that the most important things when it comes to asset acquisition is whether or not you really truly want the asset.

Once an organization has determined that they want Jack Eichel and that’s it. Then whether they give up 4 pieces or 6 pieces is irrelevant. I’m going based off the assumption that most of these pieces will be futures and thus the incremental impact on the current roster will be negligible.

You can haggle a car salesman because they can always just make you another. There’s only one Jack Eichel and Buffalo has got him. Sometimes if you really truly want a player, you pay whatever it takes to get it done. This franchise does not have an elite 1st line center in the past 30 years. I’m sure fans would be able to forgive and forget if the Flames “overpaid” which is a relative thing anyway and very hard to judge in this circumstance.

Tomorrow - if the Flames traded 5x 1st round picks for Eichel. I have a feeling majority of fans would be OK with it. And at the end of the day - the fans are the ones who buy the tickets so management should have a barometer for that.

I love the passion in this post, but it reminds me allot of trying to talk finances with spouse.

Someone has to be the grown up and say “ No if you spend like this we will go bankrupt.”

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So shall we trade six or seven pieces for Eichel when the Sabres are only asking for four? ’Cos that's what the crowd has been calling for.

Screw it. Just send them the whole team.

Jack will be a one man show.

[tfi racing]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Screw it. Just send them the whole team.

Jack will be a one man show.

Hey, why not? That plan has been working out just great in Edmonton...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Guys, guys, you’re missing the point.

Dion friggen Phaneuf is still one of the five best players this organization has taken in the 1st round this century.

We’re the team who drafted Trevor Kidd over Martin Brodeur.

We wouldn’t know what to do with a 1st round pick anyway, we may as well trade some for a player who’s demonstrably spectacular.

Exactly, that was my point

The fact it is debatable that Eichel is going to be better than the 2nd best 1st round pick in franchise history is exactly why the Flames should be giving up firsts if that gets a deal done

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I love the passion in this post, but it reminds me allot of trying to talk finances with spouse.

Someone has to be the grown up and say “ No if you spend like this we will go bankrupt.”

If we trade:

Monahan
Coronato
Mangiapane
1st

We are left with

Gaudreau-Eichel-Coleman
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube
Lucic-Backlund-Pitlick
Pelletier-Zary-Lewis
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Valimaki-Kylington
Welenski

If we have to include an extra piece, Dube or Kylington you’d think would be enough.

We’d still have Zary and Pelletier on the way, and we only trade one future 1st.

Overpaying doesn’t submarine the roster. It limits what we else we can add for the next 12 months, but that’s about it. And remember that lots of useful rental players go for late round picks every year, so we’re not completely screwed on that front.

Give the Sabres a reason to deal him here, and give us a reason to care about this team beyond “they play here”.

[Sandman]

Yeah, it’s not like 4 or 5 assets will leave us bone dry as an organization. Bottom line is, you likely can’t go very far without an elite #1C. Get him here, then worry about building more around him.

[442scotty]

I’d like Eichel to get traded anywhere just so the lunacy on here will end. Except it won’t will it because the mob will just find some other insane idea to obsess over lol. Just my humble opinion of course.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If we trade:

Monahan
Coronato
Mangiapane
1st

We are left with

Gaudreau-Eichel-Coleman
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube
Lucic-Backlund-Pitlick
Pelletier-Zary-Lewis
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Valimaki-Kylington
Welenski

If we have to include an extra piece, Dube or Kylington you’d think would be enough.

We’d still have Zary and Pelletier on the way, and we only trade one future 1st.

Overpaying doesn’t submarine the roster. It limits what we else we can add for the next 12 months, but that’s about it. And remember that lots of useful rental players go for late round picks every year, so we’re not completely screwed on that front.

Give the Sabres a reason to deal him here, and give us a reason to care about this team beyond “they play here”.

That proposal is just terrible…

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by tfi racing

Hey, why not? That plan has been working out just great in Edmonton...

The plan so far here has been working just as 'well'.

Edmonton hasnt lost because they are paying 20M for 2 players, it's because they've had inept GM's filling the gaps.

example: Eberle->Strome->Spooner->Gagner->Nothing

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Crowdsourcing the decisions might be the superior choice.

I'd have to be assured that none of the crowd on a panel making Flames trades are the same group that yell "shoot" on every powerplay.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

That proposal is just terrible…

Go on...

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It certainly makes a difference if you spend $100,000 or $150,000, as that extra $50,000 can buy things worth having.

In the same way, if you trade six pieces instead of four, you are depriving your team of a couple of potentially very useful players.



Interesting that you should choose Bitcoin as an example. You could as easily have chosen tulip bulbs in 17th-century Holland.



Tell you what, you lose everything you own and tell me how little it matters to you.



No one player is ever essential to a winning team. You're fixated on Eichel and believe that there are no alternatives, because you want exactly that kind of a player and have hypnotized yourself (with much help from other posters) into the belief that the team cannot possibly win without him.

If you trade so much for Eichel that you leave him with a supporting cast as bad as he had in Buffalo, you will get the same results as Buffalo. He's not a miracle-worker.

It's funny that you're using all this language like "hypnotized" and "fixated" when you are far and away the most active poster on this subject. Could it be that you are the one who is fixated by this rumors, just in opposite sense of the majority?

[browna]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd have to be assured that none of the crowd on a panel making Flames trades are the same group that yell "shoot" on every powerplay.

Or were part of the crew that wanted Evander Kane from Buffalo.
Or, wait 45 minutes on a telephone call in show to tell anyone still up at 1230 am that the Flames should hire Terry Crisp back.

The is Eichel thing has taken over the idle summer thoughts of many in here, and, knowing 5% of what actually is going on , have talked themselves up, and others, into this being the single solitary solution for the future of the Flames future, full stop, to the point of being physically upset.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Go on...

I don't understand how people can say overpaying doesn't submarine our roster. Talk of Monahan+Mangiapane+Coronato+1st and throw in Dube as a sweetener. It is times like this when I am happy Tre is the GM and not the group on here, and I am critical of Tre.

Does anyone think Zary or Pelletier are going to be as good as Dube? Mangiapane? We should be so lucky and I have doubt they will be.

We pull moves like this it will make the Oilers depth look like they are the TB Lightning.

[---Hatrick---]

It’s all moot at this point, but I think they should avoid including Coronato in this proposal. He fits more of a need here, and seems have more of a ceiling than any of our other prospects. It would be beneficial If you can dangle Zary or Pelletier and they bite, and we kept Coronato

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I don't understand how people can say overpaying doesn't submarine our roster. Talk of Monahan+Mangiapane+Coronato+1st and throw in Dube as a sweetener. It is times like this when I am happy Tre is the GM and not the group on here, and I am critical of Tre.

Does anyone think Zary or Pelletier are going to be as good as Dube? Mangiapane? We should be so lucky and I have doubt they will be.

We pull moves like this it will make the Oilers depth look like they are the TB Lightning.

It’s about ice time and a few unproven prospects. Eichel improves our first line our first pp which is much harder to do the ice a 4th line. Monahan is our 2nd line center now with Eichel pushes Lindholm to 2nd line. We still have backlund as 3rd line center. Concern would be 4th line but even rolling lines we are stressing about a guy who plays 10 minutes a game. IMO a guy like Ruzicka fits in that roll and doesn’t hurt the team that much. Center position we are way better

Wingers get a downgrade but some of these wingers mentioned aren’t even on the team. Sure they are the future but there are more drafts and more future wingers. Number 1 centers are rare to add

Guys out is new opportunities for new players. Mangiapane out allows dube to step up. Phillips to make the team. Sure I like mangiapane better but as a prospect dube was rated higher. He’s a few years younger and comparable to mangiapane at the same age. Uncertainty of how good a player will be vs a proven player gets some people worked up but a good gm replaces his depth but adding elite talent is rare to add