[CP Story] Reactionary Roster Management

[Red Slinger]

It's funny how some people are holding up the Sharks as the team displaying heart, courage and an 'anything to win' attitude. It wasn't that long ago that this team (many of the same core) were accused of choking every playoffs despite their great regular seasons.

The playoffs are such a crapshoot in a lot of ways. Momentum, injuries, bounces, calls and non-calls play such a big part in playoff success. Year after year we've seen teams that were derided for lack of playoff success prove doubters wrong. Last year's champions are a good example.

This Flames team doesn't need to be blown up. It needs to be tweaked. Many of these players haven't experienced a lot of playoff games. In some cases, it was their first ever. There is a maturation process that almost every young team goes through before they experience success. As the core of the team matures hopefully they improve in the post-season. Sometimes, it takes a long time.

[Toonage]

nm I think I misunderstood the post above mine

[wired]

Smith wont be back IMO, even if they up his pay.
I don't think he liked the way the fans roasted him.
There will be other teams that will offer him a 2-3 year deal with decent term.

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Aside from Tavares, I can't think of too many elite 1Cs acquired by trade. Before that would it be Seguin (unless O'Reilly counts)? And before that Thornton?

Assuming I understand your comment... Tavares wasn't acquired by trade

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by wired

Smith wont be back IMO, even if they up his pay.
I don't think he liked the way the fans roasted him.
There will be other teams that will offer him a 2-3 year deal with decent term.

I think the fans totally redeemed themselves in the post season. Smitty seemed pretty smitten during the series, and the final Smitty chant after Game 5 may be what brings him back.

Or he goes back to the desert.

Anyways I'd like to have him back, in a 50-50 role with Ritter

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Is anyone giving serious consideration to conditioning? I see a very good, talented team that faded as the season went on. For Monahan, coming back after 4 off season surgeries, it’s unsurprising the season would take a cumulative physical toll. Johnny’s poor diet IS an issue. It’s a microcosm of his lack of professionalism and commitment to doing all he can to be the best he can be. He has all the talent in the world but does anyone believe he trains like Gio or Iggy in the offseason? Neal too has gotten a wake up call.

I’m sure many of you will scoff at these suggestions. But the best response for the players on this team is to look at themselves and as a collective, assess what they can do better and prepare to ensure a better outcome next year. For a number of our key guys, that has to start with better offseason conditioning. I’m not sure we need key additions so much as a few promotions from within and renewed commitment. I think this roster is capable of much more than they accomplished in these playoffs.

Bob Hartley brought back as a conditioning and motivation coach. I remember that team was the fittest it had been in years.

[Psytic]

I would bring Smith back for sure at league minimum. Will we get 2 million more in performance going after a seasoned backup for the going rate of 2-3 mill? Or is that cap better spent at C and RW?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by wired

Smith wont be back IMO, even if they up his pay.
I don't think he liked the way the fans roasted him.
There will be other teams that will offer him a 2-3 year deal with decent term.

One year per solid playoff game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Assuming I understand your comment... Tavares wasn't acquired by trade

Crap that’s right. However, my main point was that typically you only get them by drafting them. The other thing about trading for them is typically the track team the trade some regrets it (eg Thornton) So GM’s are pretty leery of making that move.

To some degree it depends on whether Treliving thanks Monahan is a finished product or whether he can change his game some like Steve Y.

[442scotty]

I’m gonna go on record that 6 players are gone if the price is right including Smith. IF the price is right I see: Smith, Brodie, Hanafin, Jankowski, Czarnik, and one big player! I think Frolik stays also unless a better deal comes around. Fantenberg needs a new contract and probably wants too much so may also be gone.

[Beatle17]

When people talk about getting bigger, faster and tougher to play against I start thinking about players like Kris Kreider. Maybe he should be a target in thoughts of us fans instead of a guy like Hayes, who is much slower and less truculent. Kreider and maybe Sam Bennett (with a little more rope to push the aggression) could be a big enough change.

I would also be ok with adding Kreider and re-signing Ferland to spread thoughout the lineup. Would add some grit and possible goals. Then you could move Bennett to center on the third line, play him with Ferland and someone like Czarnick and have an effective line.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

It's funny how some people are holding up the Sharks as the team displaying heart, courage and an 'anything to win' attitude. It wasn't that long ago that this team (many of the same core) were accused of choking every playoffs despite their great regular seasons.

Until the Sharks taste playoff success, they are still that team in my mind.

Their comeback in this series and last night (albeit with a huge break) was impressive to be sure, but without that break, they were destined to join the long list of Shark teams to crap out early in the playoffs.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

When people talk about getting bigger, faster and tougher to play against I start thinking about players like Kris Kreider. Maybe he should be a target in thoughts of us fans instead of a guy like Hayes, who is much slower and less truculent. Kreider and maybe Sam Bennett (with a little more rope to push the aggression) could be a big enough change.

I would also be ok with adding Kreider and re-signing Ferland to spread thoughout the lineup. Would add some grit and possible goals. Then you could move Bennett to center on the third line, play him with Ferland and someone like Czarnick and have an effective line.

I like him but he is a left wing, which is why everyone is thinking Hayes who is a centre. We are pretty much set at LW unless he can play centre or RW. Ferland is damaged goods imo at this point. I wouldn't go near him for what he will ask.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I like him but he is a left wing, which is why everyone is thinking Hayes who is a centre. We are pretty much set at LW unless he can play centre or RW. Ferland is damaged goods imo at this point. I wouldn't go near him for what he will ask.

,
True, the price would have to be right on Ferland (he is the type of guy they should target) but I would try to get Kreider as I think you can move some wingers around to their off side, and maybe you could play Lindholm at center with Bennett on the right and Kreider. I would avoid Hayes myself, just too slow. I really think the coach needs to push Bennett forward this upcoming season, and he has to be ready for the chance. He is the type of guy to give some of that grit with talent and if he can't handle it they need to find out by next season.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Toonage

On topic, I want a team that will visibly fight through adversity or spring to life when they know their opponent is facing it. Not just talk about it.

I do too. The coaches do, management does. So do the owners. I think fans fall into this reactionary trap (I’m not saying you are) where because this group failed this post season they will always fail. These guys will learn from this and get better - hopefully. Next year might be the year where it clicks. Maybe the year after that. I do believe they will become that team at some point. There is time. I want Treliving to make tweaks, yes, but I believe the core of this team can get it done.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

,
True, the price would have to be right on Ferland (he is the type of guy they should target) but I would try to get Kreider as I think you can move some wingers around to their off side, and maybe you could play Lindholm at center with Bennett on the right and Kreider. I would avoid Hayes myself, just too slow. I really think the coach needs to push Bennett forward this upcoming season, and he has to be ready for the chance. He is the type of guy to give some of that grit with talent and if he can't handle it they need to find out by next season.

Bennett needs a shooter tutor. the rest of his toolset is coming around but his shot is still a 3rd line muffin. Whoever Johnny worked with should work with Bennett. Johnny's shot looked noticeably better this year.

[GreenLantern2814]

The excuse that this was a young team learning in the playoffs doesn't hold water for me. This was the fourth playoff series as a group for Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Bennett and Brodie.

Hamonic has been to the playoffs several times before. Gio has been there. It was Tkachuk's second trip. Frolik has his name on the Cup. Neal went to the finals with the last two teams to lose.

One player in the top six forwards was making his playoff debut - Lindholm. One member of the top-4 D was in his first post season - Hanifin.

This isn't some fresh faced group that's learning how to play in the second season. This is a group that has lost three of it's last four playoff series going back to 2015 in five games or fewer.

It's inexcusable to be done in five with the goaltending Smith gave them. They weren't prepared to do what needed to be done. The top players were not better than Colorado's top players. You have to hope they figure some things out this summer, otherwise a heart transplant will be in order.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don’t understand the argument that’s we’d auto lose a Monahan or Gaudreau trade. Makes no sense to me at all. They have sky high trade value. They are young, skilled and on great contracts. Every team would want those kids.

People said the same of Hamilton last year. Couldn’t deal him, contact was too good, upside too high, we’d auto lose the trade. Specious reasoning.

Tkachuk ain’t going anywhere. I think Monahan and Gaudreau are going to cause a lot of discussion amongst our management, scouts and coaches. What they will determine we have no idea. First you have to determine whether you think they’ll ever be big playoff performers. Then you have to determine if that’s a problem. Loubardias made an interesting point when he talked about you still need to make the playoffs and Gaudreau gets you there even if his game goes downhill once the hooking and holding ramps up in the playoffs.

But interesting you talk about Hanifin as he’s one of the last players I’d be moving.

My not looking to move list includes: Tkachuk, Lindholm, Valimaki, Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Mangiapane

That said the only players I’d be actively shopping are Brodie, Stone and Neal.

Sure. It shopping Neal and Stone doesn’t make you better. It just sends out dead weight and of course other teams know this.

Brodie gets you something.

So to me the focus isn’t on who you trade, it’s on what player or kind of player you target and then what it will take to get him.

I like Hanifin as a young defenseman but have no heartburn in trading him for the right piece. For me the Avalanche series was eye opening in how ineffective the Flames mobile defensemen were in containing the Avs skill and speed. He’ll get better no doubt but teams will covet him. I feel similarly about Hamonic. I like his toughness and leadership, but you can’t overpay for that. He’s on an expiring deal.

[Spinach]

I don't understand this sentence:
"The team was out predicting “playoff” Bennett leading up to the series, so you’d have to assume they see a Zucker-like addition as still mandatory." Bennett met what the team predicted, so the Flames see Zucker as an essential addition?

I like the ideas of using Brodie and/or Hanifin to improve up front, and sliding Ryan alongside Bennett next season. Valimaki could indeed surpass Hanifin next year, and Ryan has shown he's easily a 3rd-liner.

Get Thee Gone

Neal
Stone
Probably not happening, but whatever.

Trade Bait
Not to be confused with "must sell."
Frolik
Jankowski
Brodie
Hanifin
Forward/G prospects, but they should keep at least one of Dubé & Pettersen
Czarnik

Consider moving under certain circumstances

One of Gaudreau & Monahan. Let's face it, even with their warts they're still hard to replace. I guess moving Tkachuk to line 1 and using our #1 LW to get a really good centre makes more sense than using our #1 C to get a #1 C.

Tkachuk. If negotiations sour, Treliving could see whether he can get a 1st-line C or RW for his rights. Moving Tkachuk would probably preclude trading Gaudreau.

Kylington (unless Hanifin is dealt).
Mangiapane (keep if they lose Tkachuk or Johnny)
Backlund (only if Tre gets a grade-A C)

Untouchable/departure would leave a gaping hole
Gio
Lindholm
Hamonic
Bennett (he's still developing & provides an element most of the others lack)
Andersson
Rittich

Damn, are there ever a lot of variables.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think we're ignoring the 3-1 deficit they overcame which included a shorthanded goal in 2OT on the road

Heart.

On topic, I want a team that will visibly fight through adversity or spring to life when they know their opponent is facing it. Not just talk about it.

Well, sure, but I replied to "the passion displayed by the SJ players last night" so it was pretty clear.