Free agent period: successful or not?

[powderjunkie]

I’d love to be wrong, but I think this is the quadruple down on the accelerated rebuild l, and this team has committed itself to perpetual mediocrity.

I don’t see a real path to contention that doesn’t rely on multiple miracles (e.g. Zary = Barzal).

But we’ve been chasing shortcuts forever, so I’m not surprised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Burning Beard]

After both goalies couldn't stop a dang beach ball in the game 6 elimination game Treliving landed a legit number one goalie. That to me seems like a big issue solved.

Brodie wanted to go to Toronto so we scooped up a right shot dman who can play big minutes and is a known mentor to younger dmen (of which we have several). We lost Hamonic so let's let the young kids play and see what they have. With Gio and Tanev they can learn from guys who have been around. Another problem solved.

I reckon he tries to shake up the forwards with a trade if he finds one that makes sense.

I was ready to be cheezed off if we came back with the same team next season but am pleasantly surprised with the changes made so far.

2 guys coming in who are known to be ultra competitive and great in the room. I bet we see a more fired up team next year with 2 more vets pushing the kids to win.

[btimbit]

Probably echoing some thoughts in here but I'd give it a solid B+

Goaltending was a need and we addressed it big time. Hard not to complain about that, and from what I've read, signing here means he didn't sign in Edmonton so that's an extra win.

Tanev, I love the addition. A player that addresses a need and shores up the right side. Should do for us what we were hoping Hamonic would. While the contract is about $750k too much and a year too long for my liking, I'll still take it.

Would have liked to see a top 6 forward added but with the salary cap, it was likely a choice between a forward, or Markstrom. Flames decided goaltending was a bigger need and I'm inclined to agree.

[Samonadreau]

Draft gets a B, FA gets a C.

Will need Markstrom to be Vezina level throughout the playoffs to have a deep run.

[Poe969]

For signings I'd give a B- because I'm not really sold that goaltending will change the team that much.

Overall, if nothing significant changes before the season, I'm giving this offseason an F. This team wasn't good enough and they haven't made enough changes to be good enough. Unless this team wins the draft lottery, this team will be picking around 15 for a long time.

[RT14]

FA period thus far is a B+ for me. Draft would be a B.

Treliving managed to lock up a legit #1 goalie long term at a reasonable AAV. We haven’t had that true #1 guy in years and I think confidence boost having him back there more often than not is going to be immeasurable. Tanev is a great fit as well and 4 years isn’t too much of a concern for me.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I’d love to be wrong, but I think this is the quadruple down on the accelerated rebuild l, and this team has committed itself to perpetual mediocrity.

I don’t see a real path to contention that doesn’t rely on multiple miracles (e.g. Zary = Barzal).

But we’ve been chasing shortcuts forever, so I’m not surprised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really don’t get this line of thinking. How terrible are teams supposed to be before they can come out of a rebuild?

Flames started rebuilding in 2013 and currently have 5 players picked in the top 6 in the 4 drafts between 2013-2016.

Looking at the roster as it is right now

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangipane
Dube-Bennett-Lucic
Rindalo-Ryan-Robinson
Gawdin

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Tanev
Valimaki-Kylington
Mackey

Markstrom
Rittich

Of that current team 11 of 22 skaters were drafted by the team (13 if you include Gio and Rittich who were signed as prospects and developed by the org)

Giving up the boatload of picks for Hamonic was a big mistake but I think trading a mid 1st and 2 2nds for a former top 10 pick who just scored 40pts as a 21 year old Dman is a great trade.

I guess I don’t get this shortcut comment. What team really sucked forever and won something. Edmonton, Florida, Arizona, Buffalo still wandering in the dessert.

Signing an elite goalie in his prime is not a short cut it is filling a need with cap space and luckily the Flames had the flexibility to do it

[Major Major]

People are talking about goaltending like it is some nebulous detached part of a hockey team. Maybe that is what happens when you don't have a reliable starter for a decade... We assume all goaltenders are mediocre and interchangeable. And so, yes, It would be awful to feel that way and to realize that the flames biggest FA signing in recent memory is for a goalie. What's the point? This team isn't good enough to have a good goalie and if they get good it will only be because of their stupid goalie and who wants that anyway?

The flames just signed an elite top 5 in his position player. That position is the most important position on the ice. Yes, more important than 1c or 1d. They play 60 minutes and are directly involved and responsible for more plays than any other player on a team and it's not remotely close. It would be so odd to hear a fan of a football team that just signed a top 5 quarter back after years of cycling through crappy quarter backs say that the only way this team goes to the super bowl is if Aaron Rodgers plays like a pro bowl quarter back.. Ya, that's why we got him.

[GioforPM]

Every team makes mistakes like Hamonic (which was just a pricing error, and not much of one at that). Signing Neal certainly hampered the team as well. But some things were just fate - Bennett didn’t pan out to a 4th overall standard. Gillies’ and Parsons injuries.

There’s a whole lotta luck in a cup run.

[Sandman]

I agree with a lot of what 1qqaaz had to say. First, I like the draft-particularly the first three players, but Boltmann was a head-scratcher for me. He seems like a guy you pass on in the draft to invite to a few rookie camps, where you can decide whether or not to sign him. I think Chechelev could be a steal, not unlike his countrymen, Sorokin, Samsonov, and Shesterkin.

I definitely wouldn't give our signings an F, but I've never been a huge fan of Markstrom. He's been mediocre his whole career save for last year, but I'm going to be cautiously optimistic.Tre managed to reel in the biggest goalie fish, and that in itself is exciting. I don't necessarily like the term, but that's the $ and length you have to give to land a guy like that. I do, however, like the Tanev signing-he's a warrior and a leader, and brings the other D up with his presence. I would say that we need another offensive D-man, but I think Valimaki might be able to fill in there-he's one of the best in the Finnish Liiga right now, and I think we'll be surprised at what he'll be able to contribute right away. Also, losing Hamonic means we no longer have a black hole sucking the life out of our young guys. The other D we lost, including Brodie, were expected to leave, so onward and upward.

As for Taylor Hall, he can suck it.

I don't think Tre is anywhere near done, and I think there will still be a huge move or two before the season. This is not the team that we will see in January.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Every team makes mistakes like Hamonic (which was just a pricing error, and not much of one at that). Signing Neal certainly hampered the team as well. But some things were just fate - Bennett didn’t pan out to a 4th overall standard. Gillies’ and Parsons injuries.

There’s a whole lotta luck in a cup run.

Only a pricing error, and not much of one?

I guess it’s all related but they whiffed on the price and the quality of the asset they were acquiring IMO. And they misjudged the value of the compensation they gave up. They did know what position he played so I’ll give them that.

Not many teams have traded those types of picks for that type of player so unfortunately I’d say that mistake wasn’t a typical one. What we need is for Flames to be on the other side of that kind of trade but there seems to be reluctance to moving players for picks unless they’re already out the door.

Maybe Flames have had more bad luck in terms of fate than other teams. Not so sure about that really.

[TheScorpion]

Will reserve major judgment until a forward is signed, but for now I give it a solid B

Tanev is ehhhhh but I think he's becoming a little too much of a goat for some. He'll probably be just fine, if nothing special

[Corral]

A roster that has crumpled in epic fashion in round one of the playoffs two years in a row probably needs more than a change in goaltending. Game 6 this year was a total embarrassment and its not just the goalie when you give up 7 straight goals in an elimination game.

C

[dammage79]

I dont think tree is done yet. He has said as much. I fully anticipate him going to work on the FW group after the Arbitration period is over.

His work is going to come via trade. And I think everybody is waiting for the Barzal shoe to drop now.

But my first post in this thread stands. FA has been a success, they acquired their #1 target and gave zero effs about what anyone thought about it.

I dont think it can be overstated how important signing Markstom is to this organization.

[Huntingwhale]

The Markstrom acquisition was a homerun. Flames needed to finally land a big name goalie who is one of the best in the league. Swedish players seem to age like fine wine, so I think 6 years is fine especially for that cap hit. Looking forward to having stability in net for the next half-decade.

Still not sold on the Tanev acquisition. I didn't follow him as much as others have, but a defensive d-man on the wrong side of 30 who is injury prone doesn't scream like a homerun to me. I'll take Canuck fan's word that he's a solid player. But the Flames record of signing UFA players who are 30+ is piss poor. History is not on their side....

I understand that changes needed to be made to the core, but IMO Brodie was one of the few who brought it each and every post-season. Sad to see him go and am worried he'll be a bigger loss then most think. Disappointed to see that no changes were made between Gaudreau or Monahan. I remember the vitriol they got after yet another 1st round loss and am preparing myself for the exact same scenario. No a single person on CP should be surprised if/when they falter again when it matters most.

Overall I'd give it a B. Love the goalie acquisition. Will wait and see for Tanev. Sad about Brodie. Disappointed about 2 of our forward core.

[ComixZone]

I’d say successful. I’d give them an “A”, and I’m not even that big of a fan of the Tanev signing - but bringing in Markstrom is a huge win, and one of the most significant moves Tree has made as Flames GM.

I’d say this off-season so far has been nothing but solid work.

Draft: A
Free Agency: A
Trading: Undetermined

Tree played the draft about as well as he could have given the draft position and lack of picks going into it. He then hits a home run with Markstrom in free agency and also brings in a RHD that the roster needed. All that is left is for him is to use the trading avenue to improve this team beyond what he has already done, while also adding some high value depth signings via free agency.

Also, not trading Valimaki will likely be one of the biggest decisions to pay dividends this coming season. When they talk about internal growth, I think the trades that Tree hasn’t made will end up being some of the most significant parts of why we’re better in 2020/2021 than we were in 2019/2020 (keeping Valimaki, being patient with Bennett).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Just on this point, this is a misleading way of looking at it.
The reason why the Flames have some many points "walking away" is just a function of having many players walk. Are you seriously concerned about losing Jankowski (7 points), Hamonic (12 points), Reider (10 points), Stone (7 points), Czarnik (3 point), Gus (3 points, unless you are including his season total which maybe you are, as that would be 29 points), etc.

I would strongly argue that Brodie is the only player of any matter that they allowed to walk away. One could argue Hamonic, I guess.

Most of those points will be replaced by others simply playing in those spots instead. Most of the guys were simply not productive. The 100 point calc is just a function of player quantity and doesn't represent true loss or delta betweens players lost and players acquired.

But which of those guys are you ACTUALLY worried about losing?

Agreed,the poster who complained about losing 100 points and only replacing 20 of them obviously felt the need to post such info as a way of supporting his position.

If that position was that strong, you don’t need to post stats completely out of context.

Especially when our most important UFA signing was a goalie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

I give it a C+ and as much as I like the Markstrom signing and feel it had to be done, we have to recognize that this contract has potential to go sideways at some point. I think the Tanev signing will be okay for a couple of seasons but only if he can stay healthy which isn't a given. Chances are the deal doesn't look so great on the back half. Hard to say really if the team is any better on the blueline as we will have to see how Gio fares with another partner as I believe Brodie actually carried him at times last season. Hamonic Forbort, and Gustafsson aren't huge losses on their own but they were solid depth which will now be tested. In net there's no doubt goaltending should be improved but the forward group has not been good enough for years in the playoffs and here we are staring at the same forward group that can't rise to the occasion in big games more than not so at the end of the day I feel the team isn't any better or any worse. The teams is still solidly entrenched in mediocrity which seems to be good enough for ownership.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by loosecannon3

Now that the majority of the free agent period is over, how would you characterize the signings by the Flames...are you happy or not? Although getting Taylor Hall would have been great and I would have loved some lower cost, potentially bargain signings to fill in the roster, I feel the signing of a potentially great goaltender over the next few years trumps all else. What do other people think?

Based on the OP question, "Free agent period: successful or not?" the response is not. Based on the framing of the question in this post, "how would you characterize the signings by the Flames...are you happy or not?" I would say moderately, but not close to being completely satisfied. Still lots of work to do and I think a work in progress. Ask this same question as we go to training camp in three weeks. I think the team looks different at that time and we will be better positioned to judge Treliving's work.

The draft is something we won't know how successful it was until three years from now. I find you don't really know what you have until three years have passed and you know what the players look like once they have moved on from their amateur clubs. So this draft receives an incomplete as we likely can't determine the job the staff has done until 2023.

[Geeoff]

I'm not really confident in the roster yet. Gonna need big strides from Dube, Mangiapane, Bennett etc. as it stands to do any damage in the playoffs.

Markstrom might win us a round