26 players file for salary arbitration.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GGG

How about 8 x 2.75 or something. Guarantee him a lifetime of money and absorb the risk that he doesn’t pan out.

He'll hedge against that for sure.

[MrMike]

I have a feeling that Dube outplays Mangi this year and takes his spot on the second line.

If Tre didn’t try to squeeze every single penny out of Mangis contract last season maybe there would be more good will but I see him pushing for around 2.8 - 3.2 per year.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GGG

How about 8 x 2.75 or something. Guarantee him a lifetime of money and absorb the risk that he doesn’t pan out.

Lol, his agent would quit on him

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GGG

How about 8 x 2.75 or something. Guarantee him a lifetime of money and absorb the risk that he doesn’t pan out.

He will likely get that for 1 year, much less 8 lol.


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[Dube]

Love his game. Imagine if Johnny played with his jam.

[united]

Last off-season, I recommended Mangiapane as a player the Flames should be looking to lock in for as long as possible, as soon as possible, due to his all but certain impending breakout as identified by anyone who watched his all-round game - and his purported ~$1 million ask on a multi-year deal.

Unfortunately, the Flames chose to nickel-and-dime the no-leverage Mangipane for $300,000 on a single-season contract despite that and are now going to be writing a ticket that far exceeds $300,000 in incremental value every season for the remainder of his time with the Team. Small one-season gain for large multi-season pain. Great job.

[AC]

Originally Posted by united

Last off-season, I recommended Mangiapane as a player the Flames should be looking to lock in for as long as possible, as soon as possible, due to his all but certain impending breakout as identified by anyone who watched his all-round game - and his purported ~$1 million ask on a multi-year deal.

Unfortunately, the Flames chose to nickel-and-dime the no-leverage Mangipane for $300,000 on a single-season contract despite that and are now going to be writing a ticket that far exceeds $300,000 in incremental value every season for the remainder of his time with the Team. Small one-season gain for large multi-season pain. Great job.

I don't believe Mangiapane and his agent asked for a multi-year deal.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...ontract-talks/

“We provided them with an offer for one year, based on players provided to us as comparables, and we’re waiting to hear back,” said agent Ritch Winter, who represents the 23-year-old restricted free agent.

It sounds like Mangiapane is looking for closer to $1 million on a one-year, one-way deal.

So in theory it would have been great to lock him up long term, I don't believe there's reason to believe Mangipane and his agent would have accepted a long term deal at that point. It would make no sense for them to get locked in long-term that early.

[Da_Chief]

Time for Mangi to get paid. Hopefully arbitrator gives him a healthy raise.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He will likely get that for 1 year, much less 8 lol.


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But will he get that in years 5-8? Going year by year has significant risk. He needs to have continual good seasons in his 1 year deal this year, and next year, and the year after to get to UFA and cash in. Any faults or injuries in those years decrease those earnings.

What are career average earnings for players with his stat lines? What % have peaked at this point. In general I think hockey players are not risk adverse enough.

[TheoFleury]

I'd try to get him for 6x 4.25m personally. Don't think the cap space is there presently but I really believe in this kid. He and dube are very important to our top 6 future imo. I think both players will be 45-55 point players for years, depending on special teams usage. It would be a shame to go to arbitration and potentially sour the relationship especially after Tre played hardball with him last year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GGG

But will he get that in years 5-8? Going year by year has significant risk. He needs to have continual good seasons in his 1 year deal this year, and next year, and the year after to get to UFA and cash in. Any faults or injuries in those years decrease those earnings.

What are career average earnings for players with his stat lines? What % have peaked at this point. In general I think hockey players are not risk adverse enough.

It’s likely his stat line will improve as he is still in his improvement stage.

Even if he stays basically a 20-20-40 guy, he’ll get paid more as he gets farther down the line. Once he becomes a UFA, that will only increase.

You seldom see long term contracts with low AAV. Players don’t generally bet against themselves, and teams don’t like to risk signing long term contracts to complimentary players.


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[N26]

Is Mangiapane a top 6 forward on this team for more than 2 years?

Maybe, but is it ideal?

How much higher is his ceiling? Right now I think he is the 6th best forward on the team but for how long? Dubé may pass him two weeks into the season.

Is Pelletier, Pettersen, Zavgorodniy, Zary or someone else going to go past him in the next two years? Next year's first rounder?

So important to project forward with this sort of player. And I think he's great but I think he's a ultimately a third liner who can play up when needed but mostly provides secondary scoring and energy. I think he could become a decent penalty killer too.

For now I would give him 2x2.25 and if it goes to arbitration I would walk away from anything above 3x2.75.

I having been thinking about this a lot the last couple of years and I coming around to the belief that it is better to be a more ruthless GM.

Team planning would be my mantra and what the player will/may be going forward will outweigh anything he has done.

I have become a great believer in no long term contracts. Nothing more than 5 years. Long contracts and free agents contracts have too high a failure rate. Doesn't even matter how good the player is at contract time. Look at Henrik Lundquist he was great but his contract became a burden. Look at that Carey Price contract. He is great but there's no way that doesn't become a burden. Bobrovsky's already is. All those Red Wing contracts at the end of their peak. San Jose right now. Anaheim is a ####ty team yet they are over the cap. Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook. Three of them are still good but Chicago is a weak team. Toronto and Edmonton flailing about every year to create depth and build a defense. Got nothing of real consequence to show for all those huge salaries.

You can argue that it is the cost of doing business and that superstars are going to get paid sure. You can also argue that you are going to lose some important pieces because they don't get the term or salary they expect. But maybe you need to buck that paradigm and always, and I mean always, put the team first. It's harsh and risky but with good scouts, amateur and pro, good develepment it could work.

Forget Tanev I wouldn't have given Giordano his contract and I love him. Should have been a year shorter. Maybe two.

I give Mangiapane 2 years at a 3rd liner salary because that is what he is and doesn't project to be much higher. He may advance higher and if he does he gets a better contract in 2 years.

[GioforPM]

A year or two shorter and Gio would have cost $8-9M. Just sayin’

[N26]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A year or two shorter and Gio would have cost $8-9M. Just sayin’

Then I wouldn't have signed him.

Though I think you're wrong. It would have been more like $7.5 an I might have signed him at that

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A year or two shorter and Gio would have cost $8-9M. Just sayin’

That was my thinking exactly. The same goes for signing RFAs to short contracts. Take Tkachuk as an example. You will need to qualify him at about $9M or he will become a UFA. Maybe a 6-7 year commitment would’ve been more beneficial. The Flames simply didn’t have the cap space though. I am also not complaining about the Lindholm/Monahan/Gaudreau/Andersson/Hanifin contracts.

[N26]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

That was my thinking exactly. The same goes for signing RFAs to short contracts. Take Tkachuk as an example. You will need to qualify him at about $9M or he will become a UFA. Maybe a 6-7 year commitment would’ve been more beneficial. The Flames simply didn’t have the cap space though. I am also not complaining about the Lindholm/Monahan/Gaudreau/Andersson/Hanifin contracts.

I don't believe that Tkachuk's 3 years is the Flames being ruthless but Tkachuk and his agent being so.

I would have aimed for 5x$7.5

Possibly unlikely but then we could settle on 3x$7 and go back at it then. Which is exactly what will happen. Again I wouldn't offer more than 5 years

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by N26

I don't believe that Tkachuk's 3 years is the Flames being ruthless but Tkachuk and his agent being so.

I would have aimed for 5x$7.5

Possibly unlikely but then we could settle on 3x$7 and go back at it then. Which is exactly what will happen. Again I wouldn't offer more than 5 years

So will you let a 24 year old Tkachuk walk in 2 years? Qualify him at 9? Or negotiate a long term contract?

[N26]

In this system I am not as worried about the AAV as I am about term. He'll get paid but for 5 years.

With good drafting, development and pro-scouting I will make a good team that fits under the cap. One of the reasons being I am unlikely to have any buy-outs and another being I have no 4th liner/third pairing/backup goalie that are overpaid.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by N26

Then I wouldn't have signed him.

Though I think you're wrong. It would have been more like $7.5 an I might have signed him at that

I’d go back and look at the thread form then. Lot’s of people were expecting $9M.

In general, I agree that long contracts are tricky. I like 6 year deals. But they definitely cost more, if they are UFA deals.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by N26

In this system I am not as worried about the AAV as I am about term. He'll get paid but for 5 years.

With good drafting, development and pro-scouting I will make a good team that fits under the cap. One of the reasons being I am unlikely to have any buy-outs and another being I have no 4th liner/third pairing/backup goalie that are overpaid.

Of course by limiting your contracts to 5 years, you’ll sign zero good UFA’s, and any decent player you draft and develop will be gone when they reach UFA status.

GM’s don’t sign players to 7-8 year contracts because they want to, it’s because that is the market. Play that game or you will lose those players.


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