[PGT] Capitals 5, Flames 3

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

There was this play last night where backlund through a great pass to Frolik beside the net, wide open with holtby still on backlunds side

Frolik's stick was not on the ice (who knows why?)

This happens so often it's ridiculous. Frolik is not a better player than Reider at this point, and I also wouldn't want Reider on the second line.
We need another top 6 forward- Bennett and Mangiapane were supposed to potentially fill that hole but both have failed so far.

The puck was passed to a spot in his skates...had he been a RH shot it likely was a goal, but he was in no position to get his stick in a position to deflect it.

Frolik hasnt been very good this year, no question. Thats a team wide malady at this point however and hardly exclusive to MF. His penalty issues have to at least partly be blamed on frustration.

I have been perplexed since last year as to why Peters deploys him as he does. Zero PP time, yet he is magnitudes a better option than Bennett or Czarnick. Bouncing all over the lineup. Made to sit games out when other far less deserving players get dressed every night.

That being said, the damage looks to have been done and it would be better for both parties to part ways.

He is an honest player who generally busts his hump game in and game out, can be a very effective PKer, and has some offense in his game. We saw it for years here. He isnt being used as that kind of guy by Peters though, so time to just cut bait and try to find someone else to fill the yoyo spot he is in.

[Robbob]

I thought they struggled with the puck. Passes weren't as crisp, bobbled a lot of plays. For the most part they were is the right position and just failed to capitalize on chances. They are playing like a team still working to find their game. I think the silver lining is they are skating and creating chances. I think the caps aren't getting enough credit as they are a good team. This team just needs to get that confidence and swagger back.

I thought they were unlucky not to get one in the first.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He was indecisive in going after a loose puck that led to a goal and didn't play a 2 on 1 very well, which led to a goal.

The 2 on one that he "didn't play well" was caused by his partner.

I'm not big on criticizing a player's overall performance based on an error or two. Every single player makes the odd mistake and it's the luck of the draw that makes a mistake turn into a goal. I can probably find two equally bad mistakes by Gio, or Brodie, or Andersson. But if Talbot makes the save on them, no one notices.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The puck was passed to a spot in his skates...had he been a RH shot it likely was a goal, but he was in no position to get his stick in a position to deflect it.

This also happened to Mangiapane last night in the exact same spot.

It's more a matter of goal scoring IQ. I thought the passes were in a serviceable spot. Those are two left shots on the right side - who were both wide open and had to know a tap-in pass may be coming, but neither of them having their skates even remotely pointed the right way so they both flub the shots.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The 2 on one that he "didn't play well" was caused by his partner.

I'm not big on criticizing a player's overall performance based on an error or two. Every single player makes the odd mistake and it's the luck of the draw that makes a mistake turn into a goal. I can probably find two equally bad mistakes by Gio, or Brodie, or Andersson. But if Talbot makes the save on them, no one notices.

I notice, which is why I generally comment evenly across the board.

IMO Hamonic had a rough night last night. He needs to be better.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

This also happened to Mangiapane last night in the exact same spot.

It's more a matter of goal scoring IQ. I thought the passes were in a serviceable spot. Those are two left shots on the right side - who were both wide open and had to know a tap-in pass may be coming, but neither of them having their skates even remotely pointed the right way so they both flub the shots.

This! The passes were perfect (they got to open ice in front of the net flat through several defenders, you can't ask for more) but Frolik was not even close to in a good position, which is confusing because he had been standing there for 1-2 seconds.

Frolik is not worth 4 mil as this player- his lack of offensive acumen handicaps that line significantly.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He is without question the single best option for the second line and for the second straight season, a season after a series of public out bursts from his agent, he is once again being under utilized in favour of worse players, to the detriment of the team.

Without question? No need for the hyperbole. There’s a lot of questions about where he fits best or if he fits at all.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This! The passes were perfect (they got to open ice in front of the net flat through several defenders, you can't ask for more) but Frolik was not even close to in a good position, which is confusing because he had been standing there for 1-2 seconds.

Frolik is not worth 4 mil as this player- his lack of offensive acumen handicaps that line significantly.

Rule of thumb that you get ~$1M per 10 points.

Frolik is generally a .5 point per game player, and none of that is on the PP. he has a good 200 foot game

I think he has been fair value for 4 M

[heep223]

Need a more balanced attack. Let Lindholm C his own line.

Overall not worried. On to the next.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Rule of thumb that you get ~$1M per 10 points.

Frolik is generally a .5 point per game player, and none of that is on the PP. he has a good 200 foot game

I think he has been fair value for 4 M

As far as his contract goes, the fairness isn't even whether he's worth $4M right now. It's whether he was worth $4M on average over the life of the contract and the answer is probably yes.

Heck, Gio might not be worth $6.75 in 21-22. He may be the "aging vet in the bottom pair" by then. But it's been fantastic value so far.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by heep223

Need a more balanced attack. Let Lindholm C his own line.

Overall not worried. On to the next.

I generally agree but last night the second line was more dangerous than the first.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Rule of thumb that you get ~$1M per 10 points.

Frolik is generally a .5 point per game player, and none of that is on the PP. he has a good 200 foot game

I think he has been fair value for 4 M

I don't think that's accurate. A guy like Connolly who scored 44 points last year signed for 3.5 million x 4 this free agency. Panik who scored between 35-45 points the last three years got 2.75 million for four years.



And Frolik signed his deal four years ago when the cap was 10 million $ lower. IMO that contract was bad from the start both in term and dollars.

[zuluking]

"Michael Stone at 3%." ... is that a typo?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He is without question the single best option for the second line and for the second straight season, a season after a series of public out bursts from his agent, he is once again being under utilized in favour of worse players, to the detriment of the team.

He hasn't been all that good either though, nor has the line, so they keep searching.

Highest expected goal split was with Czarnik.
2nd highest Frolik with Mangiapane right behind him.

But the big issue is actual results ... with Frolik Backlund is -3 in actual goals for and against. The line is +2 with both Mangiapane and Czarnik.

Bennett only 8 minutes and no goals for or against.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He hasn't been all that good either though, nor has the line, so they keep searching.

Highest expected goal split was with Czarnik.
2nd highest Frolik with Mangiapane right behind him.

But the big issue is actual results ... with Frolik Backlund is -3 in actual goals for and against. The line is +2 with both Mangiapane and Czarnik.

Bennett only 8 minutes and no goals for or against.

What kind of minutes has everyone gotten in that spot?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't think that's accurate. A guy like Connolly who scored 44 points last year signed for 3.5 million x 4 this free agency. Panik who scored between 35-45 points the last three years got 2.75 million for four years.



And Frolik signed his deal four years ago when the cap was 10 million $ lower. IMO that contract was bad from the start both in term and dollars.

Traditionally its' been pretty close to $1M per 10 points on the UFA front for the most part - consistency is part of that too though.

Connolly may have had 44 points last year but he had 27 the year before that - so average that out and it's $3.4M.

Last year was a bit different too because of the cap crunch and the changing dynamics of free agency. Less money in the mid-tier, and more being spent on the high end RFAs.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Traditionally its' been pretty close to $1M per 10 points on the UFA front for the most part - consistency is part of that too though.

Connolly may have had 44 points last year but he had 27 the year before that - so average that out and it's $3.4M.

Last year was a bit different too because of the cap crunch and the changing dynamics of free agency. Less money in the mid-tier, and more being spent on the high end RFAs.

Maybe the market is changing for the mid-tier players that could be true. But if you pro rate Froliks contract to today's cap it's equivalent of him getting 5 million x 5. I don't think it's a fair contract let alone a good one. Too much and too long for a complimentary player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What kind of minutes has everyone gotten in that spot?

Frolik 58 minutes
Mangiapane 31 minutes
Czarnik 23 minutes
Bennett 8 minutes

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't think that's accurate. A guy like Connolly who scored 44 points last year signed for 3.5 million x 4 this free agency. Panik who scored between 35-45 points the last three years got 2.75 million for four years.



And Frolik signed his deal four years ago when the cap was 10 million $ lower. IMO that contract was bad from the start both in term and dollars.

If you're complaining about a guy like Frolik (who is still a really effective middle 6 player) you've taken yourself way off base. There are much bigger concerns for the Flames besides Frolik right now. He'll still get his 35-40 points when it's all said and done and fill a big role down the right side at both ends of the rink. Who cares if he's 0.5-.75M overpaid....he certainly isn't part of what's hurting the team and there are much more deserving players of being deleted ahead of him to clear cap space.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't think the Frolik contract was bad. He was a solid addition for the first half of the deal as he added some secondary scoring and solid 2-way play. The past few seasons he's declined a lot as he looks more like a 35 year old player than a 31 year old player but at the time of the signing he was 26 and I don't think any GM could have predicted that he would decline so quickly in his late 20's, early 30's as it's not like he was a Lucic lumbering player.