2022: The year the world returns to war?

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Jesus f

How does NATO stand by and do nothing? Russia's sanctions were impotent. At a minimum you need to cut off every last ounce of Russian trade and their citizens to get a response internally against Putin.

They haven't stood by, but, they didn't cut deep enough.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Obviously I don't blame you, but how do Russian citizens stand by and let this happen? I know a good % are brainwashed by Putin, but ffs this is a decently advanced economy with outside access to information

No it's not. Putin and his circle probably could have just stolen enough for them to settle for being single digit billionaires and started getting it there though.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Makes me wonder if there will be retaliation missile strikes on Moscow. I consider moving my family out of the city.

TBH I would think Moscow is the last place any opposing force would strike at the moment. That would severely escalate the situation. If anything they're going to focus on the troops and military concentration in and around Ukraine with adjacent positions.

Also, troops are coming into Ukraine from Belarus as well. I hope the West pulls no stops on sanctioning the #### out of Lukashenko and his criminal administration.

[JoseCuervo]

Originally Posted by Pointman

As I make a morning commute in Moscow, I see passengers looking deeply worried. Everyone has that "How bad is it going to be?" kind of look on their faces.

You have the opportunity to do something about it. Maybe get off your phone and make your voice heard man. Wake up.

[FlameOn]

One thing is certain, Putin is treating the Russian people like every other Soviet leader and most of the Czars before them; like cannon fodder and pawns to be sacrificed. The Russian people will suffer most for what is either Putin's desperate play to restore Soviet glory, or attempt to save his own hide from simmering domestic problems stemming from his huge embezzlement of Gazprom proceeds/other national assets.

I am not sure which it is that stoked this move atm. Maybe a little of A and a bit of B.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by JoseCuervo

You have the opportunity to do something about it. Maybe get off your phone and make your voice heard man. Wake up.

You do realize what happens to people who make their voices heard in Russia? The only people that can do anything are Putin's inner circle.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JoseCuervo

You have the opportunity to do something about it. Maybe get off your phone and make your voice heard man. Wake up.

Not sure Pointman is in a rush to get tossed in jail.

[peter12]

So what are Ukraine’s goals now? Force a stalemate for a week until international diplomacy negotiates some kind of ceasefire?

[Ducay]

I mean, pointing any blame at Pointman is pretty silly, but I would say the Russian populace's willingness to stand by and let Putin do what he has done over the last 15 year is a huge part of the problem.

No pointman shouldnt go make himself get "disappeared" but Russian courage is what it will take to stop him (eventually)

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Obviously I don't blame you, but how do Russian citizens stand by and let this happen? I know a good % are brainwashed by Putin, but ffs this is a decently advanced economy with outside access to information

It would have been very hard to prevent it from within. The best I could muster was birth-touristing my two children so they have US passports. Since the borders were fairly open, most open minded people chose to go for some sort of immigration rather than trying to change the government.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I mean, pointing any blame at Pointman is pretty silly, but I would say the Russian populace's willingness to stand by and let Putin do what he has done over the last 15 year is a huge part of the problem.

No pointman shouldnt go make himself get "disappeared" but honestly a little Russian courage is what it will take to stop him

Russians haven't had any say in their lives for a 1000 years, they aint going to suddenly starts demanding it now for the Ukraine

[Ducay]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1496688764424445952

https://twitter.com/user/status/1496692645200113664


Odessa? Odessa? ffs. I know we've been warned for a few weeks this could happen, but this is legit the attempted takeover of an entire western nation, ala Poland blitzkrieg....only faster.

How the west doesn't get involved is beyond me. We have no treaty with Ukraine, but cmon...this is insane

[kobasew19]

Thanks for the insight Pointman. Russia is a dictatorship, the general population can’t do anything about it unfortunately.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by peter12

So what are Ukraine’s goals now? Force a stalemate for a week until international diplomacy negotiates some kind of ceasefire?

If this is for real, it will be over in a couple days. Ukraine has a military on paper only.

[Ducay]

Like how the #### can the EU allow any sort of trade, civilian flights or anything with Russia after this? They should be isolated economically, politically, etc.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Ducay

How the west doesn't get involved is beyond me. We have no treaty with Ukraine, but cmon...this is insane

I don't believe the world will let Russia do it either. From what I've read up on wars though, big nations step in when the side they support is on the brink of defeat. This was the case with Ukraine-rebels war in 2014 as well

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Obviously I don't blame you, but how do Russian citizens stand by and let this happen? I know a good % are brainwashed by Putin, but ffs this is a decently advanced economy with outside access to information

We say this and yet watch as time goes by over the next few weeks and more and more Republicans start to go public with their support of Putin and Russia here. Tucker Carlson is already spewing Russian propaganda. And the US is theoretically a free country. It doesn’t matter how much access you have.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Russians haven't had any say in their lives for a 1000 years, they aint going to suddenly starts demanding it now for the Ukraine

And also, similar to China, there's little appetite to oppose a leader/government (even a despotic one) when your material conditions are improving. The jump in the average life expectancy in Russia since it dropped in the '90s/early '00s is pretty dramatic:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNLE00INRUS

[Ducay]

I'm not sure why this is so goddamn rattling. I think partly because I assumed Putin wasn't actually insane enough, and partly because I figured the west wouldn't let it happen.

Sanctioning 3 banks and a few oligarchs clearly was zero deterrent to Putin. I know the west has no obligation to join Ukraine in its defense, but ffs, how are no countries stepping up? I make the analogy to 1930s Poland not lightly, but it is insanely similar.

[afc wimbledon]

Interesting interview on LBC right now with reporter in Kyiev, he says something seems seriously wrong with the Russian attack if that is what they are attempting, he's a veteren war correspondent, says the city is now quiet, all services are still working and he would have expected power, radio, internet to be down but everything is still up and working, he is wondering if theres something up with the Russians attack