Xbox One - Where Microsoft actually listens to consumers

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Funny thing about that exchange is that Microsoft brought CD Projekt Red onstage to show the Witcher during their E3 event.

CD Projekt Red are pretty strong against DRM and are based in Poland.

[SebC]

Sure it would work, you just need a proxy server for your Xbox!

They can't really be doing IP checks on the check-ins, can they? I just don't see what they have to gain from it. Gotta be support that's goofed on that one.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sure it would work, you just need a proxy server for your Xbox!

They can't really be doing IP checks on the check-ins, can they? I just don't see what they have to gain from it. Gotta be support that's goofed on that one.

From what's been said in multiple MS tweets, you won't be able to sign into Xbox Live if not in one of the supported countries. And from the sounds of it if you can't sign into Xbox Live then you can't authenticate your game

[chemgear]

The more I think about it, I think Microsoft has simply done the PR/accounting math internally and determined that the number of gamers and their money that will they lose with their long term strategy is simply offset by the TV/sports revenue they will again from the apologists and people willing to swallow their DRM demands.

Which is fair I guess, it is a business with shareholders after all. The market will do what it does, customers will hopefully vote with their dollars. Gamers are simply not the long term target audience of the Xbone, they're just a sidebar/side income stream.

[Rhettzky]

You have to think that by alienating so many countries they are also shutting the door on gamers in those 21 Xbox1 compatible countries that have online friends in the blocked out ones. Sure it's probably not a huge percentage of gamers but if you switch to a different system to play with your blocked out friends it may trigger other friends to switch to join you as well. Seems like a chain reaction you'd want to avoid?

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by chemgear

The more I think about it, I think Microsoft has simply done the PR/accounting math internally and determined that the number of gamers and their money that will they lose with their long term strategy is simply offset by the TV/sports revenue they will again from the apologists and people willing to swallow their DRM demands.

Which is fair I guess, it is a business with shareholders after all. The market will do what it does, customers will hopefully vote with their dollars. Gamers are simply not the long term target audience of the Xbone, they're just a sidebar/side income stream.

Interesting. Profits from the Xbox division of MS are actually quite small in the grand scheme of things and the unhappiness from shareholders is well documented. Add to that the razor thin margins that are constantly being pushed by pirating and the inherent risks involved with the entire industry (one bomb and you're in trouble) and running a gaming division seems like a bad business decision.

Owning the living room, on the other hand, would be a massive source of revenues for MS and is very high margin as well. From a shareholder perspective, this direction makes way more sense.

[3 Justin 3]

The thing Microsoft doesn't see (and it's true I don't know their long term vision), is that they don't need this DRM and 24hr garbage to own the living room.

I can't see how DRM and 24hr check ins will make running a DVR for the tv more effective. It makes no sense, vision or no vision.

When Publishers see that their are 20 million PS4's out there and 6 million XBones out there, I'm pretty sure they won't care about any DRM non-sense and they'll go with the console that has the market share.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by chemgear

The more I think about it, I think Microsoft has simply done the PR/accounting math internally and determined that the number of gamers and their money that will they lose with their long term strategy is simply offset by the TV/sports revenue they will again from the apologists and people willing to swallow their DRM demands.

Which is fair I guess, it is a business with shareholders after all. The market will do what it does, customers will hopefully vote with their dollars. Gamers are simply not the long term target audience of the Xbone, they're just a sidebar/side income stream.

So we're now at the level of "apologists"?! Come on man, go outside for an hour or two. I get MS ####ing up their PR, but to take it so seriously is a bit much.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Goddamn that is one out of touch mother####er.

He's a pusher and we are the addicts. That's the attitude. Is he wrong? He is basically telling the people who they are and the numbers only matter.

[trackercowe]

So if you buy an Xbox and move to one of the countries that will not support the console around the launch date you're essentially out of luck until service is up and running in those countries? Wow, just another set of users who should not buy it based on their requirements.

It's pretty much become a desktop PC to the point where you always should leave it at home, and will always need to have it connected to the internet in order to get the full benefits from it. But with that in mind why would anyone choose the Xbox One over a more powerful PC, or a PS4?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

If you look at XBL's track record, it is. Outages under the current model have been few and far between, and a 'few' single points of failure? Dude, MS is throwing huge resources at this. Xbox Live under the 360 model runs on 15,000 servers. When Xbox One hits, it'll be 300,000 servers on the Azure service which is a hugely business-critical service for Microsoft and any of our cloud customers. So my confidence in the reliability of the service comes from both this, and past experience with XBL.

Thing is, you're equating a 24-hour call-home with a persistent connection requirement, which is apples and oranges. SimCity dies after 20 minutes of being unable to connect, and won't even start without a server check. D3 is cut from the same cloth. This isn't that.

I am pretty sure the XBox Live game servers won't be all Azure.

Doesn't really change your point though as storage and authentication are Azure, IIRC, so I would have zero worries about them. Azure is pretty rock solid for something like this.

[cDnStealth]

The only thing I can think of in terms of Microsoft's long term strategy is that they're really trying to push a Steam-like digital model into the console world. You have one account and your games are linked to it. I could see the Xbox One being a huge success IF they have Steam level sales. That's a big if though. But everything I read about the console says to me that they don't want to sell their games in stores.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

When Publishers see that their are 20 million PS4's out there and 6 million XBones out there, I'm pretty sure they won't care about any DRM non-sense and they'll go with the console that has the market share.

While the fanboys have sensationalized how the PS4 has crushed the Xbox One I wouldn't expect either to widely outsell the other at numbers you have stated.

I find it strange that Microsoft hasn't done any damage control. This isn't Microsoft's first kick at the console can so do they know something we don't or were they really this unprepared for the PS3 pricing and lack of DRM? I just can't believe that Microsoft didn't play this scenario and wasn't prepared to be undercut in price knowing that Sony would be selling essentially the same hardware minus Kinect. Maybe they are really banking on the casual gamers outnumbering the hardcore. Nobody really foresaw the Wii's massive success when it was introduced and maybe Microsoft is banking on that with Kinect built into every console? I really don't know as I'm no expert on the market but considering Microsoft has more resources than Sony or Nintendo one must think that everything they have done so far has been calculated. I guess we will have to see.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

While the fanboys have sensationalized how the PS4 has crushed the Xbox One I wouldn't expect either to widely outsell the other at numbers you have stated.

I find it strange that Microsoft hasn't done any damage control. This isn't Microsoft's first kick at the console can so do they know something we don't or were they really this unprepared for the PS3 pricing and lack of DRM? I just can't believe that Microsoft didn't play this scenario and wasn't prepared to be undercut in price knowing that Sony would be selling essentially the same hardware minus Kinect. Maybe they are really banking on the casual gamers outnumbering the hardcore. Nobody really foresaw the Wii's massive success when it was introduced and maybe Microsoft is banking on that with Kinect built into every console? I really don't know as I'm no expert on the market but considering Microsoft has more resources than Sony or Nintendo one must think that everything they have done so far has been calculated. I guess we will have to see.

The one thing you can absolutely count on is that Microsoft has more money than Sony and they aren't in the financial trouble that Sony currently is in. If they want to, they're in a position where they could eat the cost in order to level the playing field.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

The one thing you can absolutely count on is that Microsoft has more money than Sony and they aren't in the financial trouble that Sony currently is in. If they want to, they're in a position where they could eat the cost in order to level the playing field.

It's obvious that Sony is desperate with their price undercutting and not initially putting their hat in the DRM ring. They know if they can't afford to make the same mistakes they made with PS3 or this will be their last console so it's understandable from their side. Sony is in bad shape and messing up the Playstation could be the final straw that sinks the entire company.

Microsoft on the other hand doesn't depend on their entertainment division to make money as they make all their money in software and server tools. My estimate is that Microsoft is looking at a broader audience with the Xbox One. They don't look particularily worried that some hardcore gamers may jump ship and maybe they know something we don't? Or maybe they have badly miscalculated? I have no clue but from my eye it appears Microsoft has a long term vision for the Xbox One as the media hub for your living room with voice and motion control. Will this work? I have no idea but I think there's more to the Xbox One than we have seen so far.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

While the fanboys have sensationalized how the PS4 has crushed the Xbox One I wouldn't expect either to widely outsell the other at numbers you have stated.

I find it strange that Microsoft hasn't done any damage control. This isn't Microsoft's first kick at the console can so do they know something we don't or were they really this unprepared for the PS3 pricing and lack of DRM? I just can't believe that Microsoft didn't play this scenario and wasn't prepared to be undercut in price knowing that Sony would be selling essentially the same hardware minus Kinect. Maybe they are really banking on the casual gamers outnumbering the hardcore. Nobody really foresaw the Wii's massive success when it was introduced and maybe Microsoft is banking on that with Kinect built into every console? I really don't know as I'm no expert on the market but considering Microsoft has more resources than Sony or Nintendo one must think that everything they have done so far has been calculated. I guess we will have to see.

I'm only going to address the bolded, but it is not fanboys "sensationalizing" it. Almost every press member from Penny Arcade, IGN, CNN, etc has talked about how bad Sony crushed Mircrosoft here.

Just take a quick read through NeoGaf or other gamer forums to see what many gamers think of the Xbone.

To your other point, Im not sure Kinect was a huge success for Microsoft and it was nowhere near the success that the wii was for motion gaming...so why jam it down gamer's throats? Xbone could at least had to pricing models to include it or not.

[PsYcNeT]

I'd also like to point out that "casual gamers" typically buy the cheaper system as well.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by chemgear

offset by the TV/sports revenue they will again from the apologists and people willing to swallow their DRM demands.

Originally Posted by ignite09

So we're now at the level of "apologists"?!

You? No idea, but you sounds like you are at least willing to accept their DRM demands. Which is fine if that works for you. Actually, there should be a third basket that the Xbone market plan could be counting on - people who simply do not know about their new DRM restrictions. Never underestimate the market share proportion of the uninformed consumer; it has to be rather sizable even in this day and age.

Again, it's cool what you choose - your money at the end of the day. Just trying think about the business strategy that Microsoft seems to have given their corporate messaging with the Xbone.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

I'm only going to address the bolded, but it is not fanboys "sensationalizing" it. Almost every press member from Penny Arcade, IGN, CNN, etc has talked about how bad Sony crushed Mircrosoft here.

Just take a quick read through NeoGaf or other gamer forums to see what many gamers think of the Xbone.

To your other point, Im not sure Kinect was a huge success for Microsoft and it was nowhere near the success that the wii was for motion gaming...so why jam it down gamer's throats? Xbone could at least had to pricing models to include it or not.

Remember IGN, Gamespot are still fanboys that get paid to play games so I don't buy that they influence anyone but the hardcore. I still remember how the Xbox 360 had a ho hum E3 prior to launch with many comments that the graphics weren't that much better and disappointing and how much people got swept away by Sony the following E3 with all their CG base demos, Blu-ray, 1080p HDMI, "Next gen doesn't start until we say it starts", and in the end none of that mattered. I don't know exactly how right Microsoft is about what they are doing but they are right in that it's a marathon not a sprint.

As for Kinect like I said before I wish myself that Microsoft gave you the option of not buying it but I do understand why they are including it with every console as developers don't like putting too much focus on optional hardware. If developers can get really creative with Kinect on Xbox One will have a decided edge over PS4 and lets face it the motion sensing technology is just at the tip of its potential.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'd also like to point out that "casual gamers" typically buy the cheaper system as well.

Apple hardware costs more and has a massive group of haters but none of it can put a dent in their dominance. If the casuals believe it's the system to get people will get it.