Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Pass the bottle if you don't mind.

sorry mate but she's empty now

[Niemo]

Flames save 0.5MM on the cap each year, but 9MM in real dollars over the 4 years.

[DuffMan]

TheScore has a good article on this but one thing stood out, Neal was a healthy scratch in S1G5 of the Playoffs. I think there was no coming back from that.

[I_H8_Crawford]

This is a horrible trade on par with the Regehr, Phaneuf, Iginla, Bouwmeester, and Gilmour trades.

Flames take the worst contact in the NHL, and have ZERO guarantees that he will waive NMC for expansion, and all they get for it is $500k in cap savings???

The conditional 3rd is a freaking joke. I think the flames getting bent over in the playoffs broke Treliving like the constant underperforming Iginla flames broke Sutter.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by sa226

I look forward to some insight from a true Insider, because Im still wondering why this trade happened.

I just don't get it. I need more info.

I actually trust Treliving, If he makes a move like this, there must be a good reason for it.

But man oh man, I need to know why.

The reason is obvious.
The team needed a physical addition and this is in large part reactionary to the way we were dismissed in the playoffs.
This allowed the team to try and do that while also getting rid of dead weight, not giving up any quality players or picks and breaking even on bad salary.

Whether Lucic is the right guy is hard to swallow, but the reason shouldn't be a mystery to anyone.

I'm trying to imagine Lucic in our lineup when someone like Zadorov was physically imposing on our forwards in the playoffs and he would have played a positive role IMO.

Sure, there's physical players in the league I'd take before Lucic, but we couldn't get them for what is essentially free and cap hit even.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

This is a horrible trade on par with the Regehr, Phaneuf, Iginla, Bouwmeester, and Gilmour trades.

Flames take the worst contact in the NHL, and have ZERO guarantees that he will waive NMC for expansion, and all they get for it is $500k in cap savings???

The conditional 3rd is a freaking joke. I think the flames getting bent over in the playoffs broke Treliving like the constant underperforming Iginla flames broke Sutter.

Did you just compare James Neal to those players?
Lucic aside, Neal with his salary had negative trade value. We didn't give up an asset today, completely unlike all of the trades you've mentioned.

[btimbit]

I hate the contract and potential expansion implications, but let's not pretend that at worst, this is a lateral move as far as what happens on the ice

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Did you just compare James Neal to those players?
Lucic aside, Neal with his salary had negative trade value. We didn't give up an asset today, completely unlike all of the trades you've mentioned.

We gave up a contract in that Neal could be left unprotected or bought out.

Now we have an immovable, buyout proof contact with ZERO guarantees that he will waive for expansion, so this trade could very well cost the flames an asset.

Neal was negative value, Lucic was even lower value than Neal. Oh and we just ate a bullet for the Oilers too, while getting NOTHING for taking that bullet.

Horrible trade.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I hate the contract and potential expansion implications, but let's not pretend that at worst, this is a lateral move as far as what happens on the ice

Yeah, it's not a lateral move. It's most likely a worse move on the ice and definitely a worse move contract wise.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

We gave up a contract in that Neal could be left unprotected or bought out.

Now we have an immovable, buyout proof contact with ZERO guarantees that he will waive for expansion, so this trade could very well cost the flames an asset.

Neal was negative value, Lucic was even lower value than Neal. Oh and we just ate a bullet for the Oilers too, while getting NOTHING for taking that bullet.

Horrible trade.

This is a fair point.

But let's be honest, this was a trade of 2 bums (both negative value as you've noted).
It may turn out to be a bad trade, but it's nothing like the other one's you've mentioned which were top players for this team.
This is a very minor move comparatively.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Karl

Yeah, it's not a lateral move. It's most likely a worse move on the ice and definitely a worse move contract wise.

How is it a worse move on the ice? Believe it or not, Lucic has actually been the better player lately, as terribly sad and pathetic as that is

[sa226]

I guess a plus is that we don't have to hope that he's going to rebound and be awesome, just to be disappointed.

We already know hes useless.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by btimbit

How is it a worse move on the ice? Believe it or not, Lucic has actually been the better player lately, as terribly sad and pathetic as that is

Because Lucic is even slower than Neal so the fact that he is one of the best fighters and can hit people is mitigated by the fact that most players wouldn't be stupid enough to even try to fight him.

And he is too slow to often hit people effectively unless they're pretty much standing still because he can't skate well enough.

And the rest of his hockey skills (shot & stick handling) are far too gone to for him to be salvageable.

[Barnet Flame]

I just want to cry.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This is a fair point.

But let's be honest, this was a trade of 2 bums (both negative value as you've noted).
It may turn out to be a bad trade, but it's nothing like the other one's you've mentioned which were top players for this team.
This is a very minor move comparatively.

A trade of 2 bums where the flames assume far more risk and they get nothing for that risk other than saving the owners $7 million.

Horrible trade that can cost this team asset wise down the road. Awful.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Karl

Because Lucic is even slower than Neal so the fact that he is one of the best fighters and can hit people is mitigated by the fact that most players wouldn't be stupid enough to even try to fight him.

And he is too slow to often hit people effectively unless they're pretty much standing still because he can't skate well enough.

And the rest of his hockey skills (shot & stick handling) are far too gone to for him to be salvageable.

So exactly like Neal

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Karl

Yeah, it's not a lateral move. It's most likely a worse move on the ice and definitely a worse move contract wise.

For the Flames I am not convinced it is a worse move on the ice. Neal was not a fit here. He wasn’t fitting in the top 6 and is useless in the bottom 6. At least Lucic can be a bottom 6 guy that hits people. For the Flames current roster there wasn’t really a spot for Neal and now Lucic eats up an expensive spot that used to be filled by Hathaway.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Karl

Because Lucic is even slower than Neal so the fact that he is one of the best fighters and can hit people is mitigated by the fact that most players wouldn't be stupid enough to even try to fight him.

And he is too slow to often hit people effectively unless they're pretty much standing still because he can't skate well enough.

And the rest of his hockey skills (shot & stick handling) are far too gone to for him to be salvageable.

The guy had 250 hits last year and he can’t hit effectively anymore? You’re getting a little carried away.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

VERY unlikely. I will bet any amount you want that the Flames don't have to use a protection slot on him.

This time I want to be on the same side of the bet as you!

Not sure if that makes you feel better about your position or worse though, haha.

[savardandjokinen]

Lucic is so useless and overpaid and slow this trade is so bad. I know Neal is all of that but Lucic is worse at all of that