Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The only way to do that is to wait until free agency opens and then they lose the possibility of an 8th year.

If he waits until then, IMO he has a destination (or more) in mind and is just hoping they offer comparable money so he can split.

If it was mainly about money he'd take the Flames offer, unless they are low balling him.

I think it is more likely they do what Landeskog did. They got rid of the legal tampering but we all know tampering happens. A fan on Twitter said Blake Coleman was coming to Calgary before the free agent window opened so obviously they had talks. Maybe Tampa allowed it? All these big deals that get signed minutes after Free agency opens is because there has always been tampering. I doubt it really picks up until draft week so Johnny signing on the eve of free agency is possible. I think the Flames want to get it done asap to be ready to potentially pivot at the draft if they need to move Tkachuk, Mangiapane or someone else.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think it is more likely they do what Landeskog did. They got rid of the legal tampering but we all know tampering happens. A fan on Twitter said Blake Coleman was coming to Calgary before the free agent window opened so obviously they had talks. Maybe Tampa allowed it? All these big deals that get signed minutes after Free agency opens is because there has always been tampering. I doubt it really picks up until draft week so Johnny signing on the eve of free agency is possible. I think the Flames want to get it done asap to be ready to potentially pivot at the draft if they need to move Tkachuk, Mangiapane or someone else.

Well, TB was never gonna sign Coleman, so that's a little different. Teams often allow it - Ottawa did with Stone but he only spoke with Vegas.

[Bonded]

I don't think any team will get charged with tampering unless the GM is dumb like Benning and says the quiet part out loud. I think the reason they got rid of the courting period was to try and make July 1st exciting again. Guaranteed teams are already discussing ranges or something else vague with Gaudreau

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don't think any team will get charged with tampering unless the GM is dumb like Benning and says the quiet part out loud. I think the reason they got rid of the courting period was to try and make July 1st exciting again. Guaranteed teams are already discussing ranges or something else vague with Gaudreau

I don't think it's even legal to call his agent and talk ranges, etc. I don't think teams can even speak to him or his agent. The skeevy stuff happens when agent calls team X to talk about a player they have that he represents and somehow Gaudreau's name comes up.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think it's even legal to call his agent and talk ranges, etc. I don't think teams can even speak to him or his agent. The skeevy stuff happens when agent calls team X to talk about a player they have that he represents and somehow Gaudreau's name comes up.

If it isn't in writing, how hard do you think the NHL can and will try to enforce tampering rules? Plausible deniability on the GM and agent's part is all that is needed.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think it's even legal to call his agent and talk ranges, etc. I don't think teams can even speak to him or his agent. The skeevy stuff happens when agent calls team X to talk about a player they have that he represents and somehow Gaudreau's name comes up.

Yeah, I think that's is right.

But it's clear that stuff get's talked about.

I have little doubt that Johnny will know in advance what the 7-year offers will look like and can compare them to his 8-year offer from the Flames.

It pretty much assures that Calgary will give him their best offer of an 8-year deal prior to the deadline, and Johnny will know (likely) what other team's
best 7-year offers will be prior to the deadline.

IIRC, Colorado increased their offer to Landeskog from $6M to $7 AAV just before the deadline and he accepted. TB held firm on its $9.5M offer to Stamkos. Of course, each of those team had serious cap issues, and it was well known that each of those players really wanted to return, they were just trying to get as much money as possible. Each turned down, reportedly, more money to stay.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If it isn't in writing, how hard do you think the NHL can and will try to enforce tampering rules? Plausible deniability on the GM and agent's part is all that is needed.

Oh you can bet the NHL and their Scadden Arps lawyers would be all over that enforcing the regulations to the letter.

Its the overturning of obvious goals that result in playoff elimination losses to which the NHL brass turns a blind eye.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If it isn't in writing, how hard do you think the NHL can and will try to enforce tampering rules? Plausible deniability on the GM and agent's part is all that is needed.

A couple things - GMs are motivated to have the league work pretty hard because they don’t want to be tampered with. And GMs also have long memories themselves. Burke still hates Lowe for a move that was actually allowed.

And you’d be surprised what you can prove with witnesses. Plus the NHL isn’t bound by rules of evidence or anything when enforcing their rules.

[Bonded]

If the league was serious about it then I think we would have seen more enforcement over the years. The only tampering penalties are when someone says something to the public and big deals are typically signed, sealed, and done in the first few hours of the day. I don't think any GMs would be as brazen to offer an exact contract but in a casual chat with an agent, they could say we have a hole on defense that we are looking to fill with a contract x for y years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If the league was serious about it then I think we would have seen more enforcement over the years. The only tampering penalties are when someone says something to the public and big deals are typically signed, sealed, and done in the first few hours of the day. I don't think any GMs would be as brazen to offer an exact contract but in a casual chat with an agent, they could say we have a hole that we are looking to fill with a contract x for y years.

Maybe but how many big UFAs get poached by other teams (where the original team was working hard to keep them), and who the team hasn't allowed access. Tavares. Panarin.

Edit: IMO there's not really much of a need. GMs and agents are tuned in enough to know the ranges, interested teams, etc, without having to cross the line.

[Steve Macfarlane]

There are lots of little agreements made behind the scenes. Usually only come into play when one side takes a real hard line on the money and then teams like Calgary have to either allow it to prove a point or look into last-minute trade or sign-and-trade possibilities.

[djsFlames]

The guy with the source inside the family a few months back himself said 9-10 AAV (was the number thrown out by someone in Gaudreau's camp) so the 9.5 isn't lowballing at all given that info. Sounds about right on point. Now given his playoff maybe his ask has climbed since, but I doubt that significantly.

I don't think the number is going to blow minds. The Gaudreaus seem rather reasonable.

[DoubleK]

@Steve Macfarlane or anyone else, do we know if the Flames have given permission for Gross to talk to other teams?

Or is that a next step/plan B after the Flames receive a counter offer as July 13 nears?

[Knut]

9.999,999.99 M x 8 years seems right.

[djsFlames]

10 x 8 for Johnny and 9.25-9.5 x 5-6 for Matthew would be quite ideal.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Steve Macfarlane

I'm not expecting any deal to be signed and delivered until Gaudreau's agent is able to talk to other teams without tampering coming into play.

Wrote about it here.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...hnny-gaudreau/

Not sure I follow you here Steve, so Gaudreau is just going to forego the 8th year option just to see what other teams will offer? In my mind, the absolute highest offer I could see the flames making would be up to 11.5M AAV. To make up that total offer from any other team would be over 13M AAV which is.. insane.

[MegaErtz]

We all want the guy to sign with us but really, do we want to have such a high dollar salary on the books for a 36 year old in the year 2030? One thing that has really helped GMs across the league has been the increasing salary cap, which doesn't look likely to increase anytime substantially any time soon. I love watching him play and he's clearly the best player we've had since Iginla, but I think we should let him walk and rebuild. Trade Tkachuk for picks and start all over. We did well to be competitive over the last five years, but not well enough. I see nothing that leads me to believe that the team will be better next year than it was this year.

[MrMike]

Even if Gaudreau doesn’t sign, the Flames will not be rebuilding.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Even if Gaudreau doesn’t sign, the Flames will not be rebuilding.

That's the sad reality. Sometimes you need to learn to walk away from a bad hand. We're basically doomed if we keep going down this path of being a development squad for American based teams.

[442scotty]

Johnny needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Treliving has lots of players to deal with and can’t do much until Gaudreau is done one way or another. Soon hopefully