American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^Totally fair point.

I just want people to consider all the ramifications of changing police protocols. Like not chasing shoplifters in San Francisco has led to all out anarchy for shop owners. It may sound sensible at first to deal with a problem we're all concerned about, but the obvious end result is perhaps a far worse problem. It needs to be considered, that's all.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Here's a hypothetical for you based on your suggestion:

The suspect fleeing is still scared and panicky. He/she decides to enter a nearby home to hide where he finds someone inside. There's a brief moment of surprise before the scared suspect shoots the innocent person in their home.

Would you not crucify the cops for NOT pursuing the suspect? Isn't that exactly what the cops in Uvalde are in trouble for? Not acting when they had the opportunity...waiting...then a bunch of innocents are dead.

There is definitely a hard decision to be made to avoid unnecessary death of suspects, but honestly, if it results in more deaths of innocent bystanders then I'm not at all for it.

No not the same thing at all.
The Cops in Uvalde are in trouble because they did nothing while an active shooter was actively shooting up a school.

Your situation is based entirely on a hypothetical.
That's part of the problem with policing in the US (and in some ways Canada). It's based on the assumption that everyone needs to be stopped, including up to using deadly force because of what they might do.
Cops shouldn't be killing people because of something they might do.

When there is a clear, immediate danger to the public, Police should act decisively.
Cops should not be acting in a way that increases the danger to the public, like say spraying 90 bullets into the street, based solely on a hypthetical.
If they did that, they should shoot everyone who doesn't immediately drop to their knees, with hands in the air, because who knows what they could do.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Here's a hypothetical for you based on your suggestion:

The suspect fleeing is still scared and panicky. He/she decides to enter a nearby home to hide where he finds someone inside. There's a brief moment of surprise before the scared suspect shoots the innocent person in their home.

Would you not crucify the cops for NOT pursuing the suspect? Isn't that exactly what the cops in Uvalde are in trouble for? Not acting when they had the opportunity...waiting...then a bunch of innocents are dead.

There is definitely a hard decision to be made to avoid unnecessary death of suspects, but honestly, if it results in more deaths of innocent bystanders then I'm not at all for it.

From a philosophical, moral sense this is also bereft as you've automatically assumed that the life of the suspect is worth less than a bystander, even if the suspect is actually innocent of any crimes. The simple act of being scared and fleeing shouldn't be enough to justify death.

I understand where you're going with this, but if we look at these incidents there are very few where the criminal is so motivated by their pursuers that they wish to take hostages or kill other people that arent chasing after them. Most crimes are of desperation, and those people largely aren't interested in killing anyone. It's like a car jacker who accidentally kidnaps a kid because the parent left them in the car. Almost always results in the carjacker returning or dropping off the child somewhere.

We have to assess these as risk and probabilities. Right now there is far too much probability of a suspect being shot and killed by the police.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Here's a hypothetical for you based on your suggestion:

The suspect fleeing is still scared and panicky. He/she decides to enter a nearby home to hide where he finds someone inside. There's a brief moment of surprise before the scared suspect shoots the innocent person in their home.

Would you not crucify the cops for NOT pursuing the suspect? Isn't that exactly what the cops in Uvalde are in trouble for? Not acting when they had the opportunity...waiting...then a bunch of innocents are dead.

There is definitely a hard decision to be made to avoid unnecessary death of suspects, but honestly, if it results in more deaths of innocent bystanders then I'm not at all for it.

most every one of these shootings hasnt involved anything more than a traffic violation and an old bench warrant so minor that the cops didnt bother to go get the guy at his house, non payment of a fine, simple possesion or a minor assault, there is no real downside to risking the 'perp' getting away as these are just ordinary black guys in a country where 1/3rd of black guys are getting arrested for stuff they would never bother a white kid with.

They could actually just let them drive away with no real risk to the community, they definatly could just pursue them at a distance until they blew a tire or just ran out of steam, the way the cops do in every other country in the world, you cant set police procedure based on the idea that every body that is black you interact with is either Hannibal Lector or Baby Faced Nelson (who were both white ironically)

[Locke]

I think they might have to 'Star Wars' this up a bit and find a way to shoot tracking devices onto cars so they can avoid an incident and just follow the person up later in a safer manner.

Because just mowing people down over traffic incidents is insane.

[Snuffleupagus]

My suggestion is to educate people that it's virtually impossible to out run the police and it won't end well if you try, especially if you have a gun.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

My suggestion is to educate people that it's virtually impossible to out run the police and it won't end well if you try, especially if you have a gun.

Is that true, though? I've seen a ton of videos of guys running away from cops. A fit adrenaline-filled 20 year old is going to be a fata ton faster than 90% of cops. You're crazy not to run. Why land on a 100% chance of going to jail versus rolling the dice on getting away? I imagine they don't just start shooting every time.

[PsYcNeT]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1543808209781407744

[Fuzz]

That there is what freedom looks like. Government funding via thought police.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Matata

If I was forced to move, I'd pick 20 places in the states before I'd pick anywhere else in world. Great weather, great income, low living costs. The US only sucks if you're poor.

This is such a naive post. Sure the US might be great if you have a good job with solid income, but what if something unexpected happens? One unexpected layoff and suddenly you're at the mercy of the failed American social safety net. Or if you become seriously ill then you're in danger of bankruptcy regardless of how good your insurance is

America is only good for the true 1%, those who already have enough money in the bank to never worry about it. For the rest it's simply a life gamble, hope your dice roll includes steady work with good pay and good benefits and pray that you never get seriously ill. And even if you luck out with a natural 20, you'll still be lagging behind most of the world in quality of life in areas like guaranteed vacation, maternity leave, and workers rights

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Is that true, though? I've seen a ton of videos of guys running away from cops. A fit adrenaline-filled 20 year old is going to be a fata ton faster than 90% of cops. You're crazy not to run. Why land on a 100% chance of going to jail versus rolling the dice on getting away? I imagine they don't just start shooting every time.

I should have specified in a car, if one is in a city you just can't out run the cops, if you have a gun you have all the cops plus a helicopter as well.

In this case he had 13 cops on foot after the car chase, his adrenaline turned into a brain fart and it cost him his life.

P.S, for interests sake, I would love to see some of these "ton of videos" where guys run away from cops and get away. I'm willing to bet not one was being chased for a major crime or fired a gun.

Maybe you're thinking of a movie scene!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

https://twitter.com/user/status/1543808209781407744

That's old news. It's now an actual thing instead of just rhetoric, but it's been circulating amongst my colleagues for a while.

I think a good old fashioned display of non-compliance with the law would be ideal. Shouldn't be hard to get an entire faculty on board with it and make it into a big demonstration. This could be one of those things that severely backfires on ol' Ron.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

This is such a naive post. Sure the US might be great if you have a good job with solid income, but what if something unexpected happens? One unexpected layoff and suddenly you're at the mercy of the failed American social safety net. Or if you become seriously ill then you're in danger of bankruptcy regardless of how good your insurance is

America is only good for the true 1%, those who already have enough money in the bank to never worry about it. For the rest it's simply a life gamble, hope your dice roll includes steady work with good pay and good benefits and pray that you never get seriously ill. And even if you luck out with a natural 20, you'll still be lagging behind most of the world in quality of life in areas like guaranteed vacation, maternity leave, and workers rights

30% pay bump, lower cost of living, lower taxes plus choice of weather. If my technical skills are only valuable for a limited amount of time, then arent I doing myself a disservice by not going where they would be of most value?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

^Totally fair point.

I just want people to consider all the ramifications of changing police protocols. Like not chasing shoplifters in San Francisco has led to all out anarchy for shop owners. It may sound sensible at first to deal with a problem we're all concerned about, but the obvious end result is perhaps a far worse problem. It needs to be considered, that's all.

I'm confident the police were never chasing shop lifters in San Francisco unless they have the world's largest police budget.

That's not to say that progressive changes to law enforcement don't backfire as whatever they are doing in San Francisco likely didn't work (although I'm sure its being blown up by Conservative media as well). But that's more of an enforcing crime issue than changing anything police are doing.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

P.S, for interests sake, I would love to see some of these "ton of videos" where guys run away from cops and get away. I'm willing to bet not one was being chased for a major crime or fired a gun.

Maybe you're thinking of a movie scene!

Just go to YouTube. Running away from cops on foot. Driving away from cops in a car. Evading police on a motorcycle. Take your pick...there is no shortage of videos.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Totally, all 13 of them should of huddled and chose one of them to take a potentially dangerous peruptator down. Hopefully he was kind of enough not to shoot before they made their decision. (Yes I know he didn't have a gun at that point, but that is known in hindsight is irrelevant in the heat of the moment). Instead they followed their training and emptied their mags, they all get to go home to their kids and stopped a potentially dangerous perputator who showed no regard for life by shooting out of his car from kiiling them, an innocent bystander, taking someone hostage...

What is your better idea?

Uh you could shoot him once and that's it? This isn't a video game with a health bar up top that only marginally dips into red, and so you have to make sure you blast the ever loving #### out of him. But no, 60 shots is reasonable... I mean if you shoot him once at least he has a shot at living (pun intended).

Why do police enter police work assuming they will not, or should never, encounter danger?

[Dion]

The Radical right is just crazy

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542898653895032834

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Hey, look, it sounds extreme, but look how it worked out for ISIS.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Matata

30% pay bump, lower cost of living, lower taxes plus choice of weather. If my technical skills are only valuable for a limited amount of time, then arent I doing myself a disservice by not going where they would be of most value?

Are you considering the exchange rate as a 30% pay bump?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I think a good old fashioned display of non-compliance with the law would be ideal. Shouldn't be hard to get an entire faculty on board with it and make it into a big demonstration. This could be one of those things that severely backfires on ol' Ron.

That's the delusional faculty mentality speaking there Cali. School administrations are not going to allow their institution into be thrust into a position of legal jeopardy or put their funding at risk. Not during times of flagging enrollments and the prospect of changes to student funding models. Faculty always come up with these hairbrained ideas of non-compliance, not understanding the ramifications of their actions or the impact to the school in large. At some point the institution will do what it deems as necessary to maintain compliance with the law, up to and including. I've seen the culling happen at other institutions. Don't think for a second that if push comes to shove your administration will not take similar actions if put in a corner.

Originally Posted by Matata

30% pay bump, lower cost of living, lower taxes plus choice of weather. If my technical skills are only valuable for a limited amount of time, then arent I doing myself a disservice by not going where they would be of most value?

Where is this fantasy land you speak of? If you're looking for choice weather, you're taking less money. If you honesty believe in the BS narrative that the cost of living is so much lower you're not paying attention. Costs are not just escalating, they're spinning out of control. Taxes are lower, but only for the top 1%, and your burger flipping skills re unlikely to get you where you need to be to get the breaks you're believe exist for you. Unless you are truly a unicorn and can differentiate yourself as someone special in the marketplace, you're just going to be another schmoe in the big picture. People conflate lower income tax with total tax exposure, and then don't understand the implications of the" hidden taxes", like health care costs. There is one thing that the United States is the absolute best at and that is painting an unrealistic picture of what life is like living in this country. Stop consuming the fantasy bull#### you're reading in the obviously slanted right ring media where you get your information, and start by trying to understand those 20 places you think are better situations. Once you scratch past the veneer surface you're thinking is the whole piece of furniture, you're going to be surprised just how little difference there is place to place.