[Trade] Toffoli to Flames for 2022 1st *, 2023 5th, Heineman, and Pitlick

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

3 in the last 5.

4 in the last 10

5 in the last 12


the 3 in the last 5 is what concerns me the most.

What? Other than the upcoming draft the last time they didn't have a first round pick was 2018 and before that 2015.

2021: Coronato
2020: Zary
2019: Pelletier
2017: Valimaki
2016: Tkachuk
2014: Bennett
2013: Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk
2012: Jankowski

Their two non-first round picks:

2018: Pospisil
2015: Andersson

That's not giving away drafting in the first round "regularly".

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Sorry, I didn't meant to accuse you of ranting, what I meant was, let's not rant about it

There's only one person here ranting.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Sorry, I didn't meant to accuse you of ranting, what I meant was, let's not rant about it





ok well now you kind of have.

Hey I like Poirier. he's ok... got a long ways to go but whatever. if we liked him so much we could have traded any journeyman to get him. didn't need to forfeit Schneider, sorry that was just weird. Will we see Poirier in the NHL? dunno..rooting for him in the AHL.

Zary...what was that pick

If you thought that was a rant, you sure ain't never seen a rant.

As for Zary, this is what he is:

A great skater, he can score goals and play a solid two-way game. However, it is his ability to find teammates with his crisp passes and excellent vision that are his strongest attributes. Owns a projectable frame. Can rack up plenty of assists and play in all game situations due to his hockey sense, grit and fearlessness. Is not a very dynamic offensive talent but he simply puts points on the board. Excels whenever he has the puck.

Long Range Potential: Speedy, savvy scoring center with upside.

Not only is Zary, by all accounts, loved by coaches and team-mates, but when you watch him you see the effort he gives in all three zones. Furthermore, ask virtually any scout or prospect watcher about Zary and there won’t be any “haters”, no-one who does not think that he can be a good NHL player.

Zary is a center who loves to make things happen around the net. A well-balanced scorer who drives his line.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

well true, like when you look at the players TO drafts high (jokes).

Hey man people been saying here for 30 pages "ah it's only a 26th pick it's like worthless"

But when we trade down a mid-first and give up a blue-chip D to do it, people be like "but look at all the low ranking picks we got"

If Schneider was such a stud, why did 18 other teams (19 if you include the Flames) pass on him?

Re: 26th overall; for every Martin Havlat you can show me, I’ll show you 10 Leland Irving’s.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Inferno

What? Other than the upcoming draft the last time they didn't have a first round pick was 2018 and before that 2015.

2021: Coronato
2020: Zary
2019: Pelletier
2017: Valimaki
2016: Tkachuk
2014: Bennett
2013: Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk
2012: Jankowski

Their two non-first round picks:

2018: Pospisil
2015: Andersson

That's not giving away drafting in the first round "regularly".

we just went over it on the previous page when other people brought this up

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Inferno

What? Other than the upcoming draft the last time they didn't have a first round pick was 2018 and before that 2015.



2021: Coronato

2020: Zary

2019: Pelletier

2017: Valimaki

2016: Tkachuk

2014: Bennett

2013: Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk

2012: Jankowski



Their two non-first round picks:



2018: Pospisil

2015: Andersson



That's not giving away drafting in the first round "regularly".

Ah, but you see, the genius in this jamoke's logic that you are missing is that he includes EVERY first round pick traded, which makes for two in 2020 when the Flames slid down twice to acquire additional picks.

And of course, as we all know, the very best time to draw conclusions about young players and their long-term potential is after their Draft+2 season.

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[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If Schneider was such a stud, why did 18 other teams (19 if you include the Flames) pass on him?

Re: 26th overall; for every Martin Havlat you can show me, I’ll show you 10 Leland Irving’s.

so you would rather the picks that every single team passed on multiple times? You do understand that arguement works both ways right?

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

If you thought that was a rant, you sure ain't never seen a rant.

As for Zary, this is what he is:

A great skater, he can score goals and play a solid two-way game. However, it is his ability to find teammates with his crisp passes and excellent vision that are his strongest attributes. Owns a projectable frame. Can rack up plenty of assists and play in all game situations due to his hockey sense, grit and fearlessness. Is not a very dynamic offensive talent but he simply puts points on the board. Excels whenever he has the puck.

Long Range Potential: Speedy, savvy scoring center with upside.

Not only is Zary, by all accounts, loved by coaches and team-mates, but when you watch him you see the effort he gives in all three zones. Furthermore, ask virtually any scout or prospect watcher about Zary and there won’t be any “haters”, no-one who does not think that he can be a good NHL player.

Zary is a center who loves to make things happen around the net. A well-balanced scorer who drives his line.

Zary is a concussion risk. Has been for years. If he wants to stay at center he either needs to improve his awareness or move to wing. Outside of that, I'm not here to bash Zary, that's not my goal.

2020 counts, all the same. We don't need to bash prospects to count it, we know where Schneider is right now.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ah, but you see, the genius in this jamoke's logic that you are missing is that he includes EVERY first round pick traded, which makes for two in 2020 when the Flames slid down twice to acquire additional picks.

And of course, as we all know, the very best time to draw conclusions about young players and their long-term potential is after their Draft+2 season.

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sorry for being such a Jamoke but if you apply basic math you will determine that 2020 was 3 picks traded, not two, using your logic which, sorry, gets us nowhere and serves no purpose.

But sure we can do 3 in 2020 if it makes you feel better.

Or 2 (only those traded away). whatever. I don't care.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

sorry for being such a Jamoke but if you apply basic math you will determine that 2020 was 3 picks traded, not two, using your logic which, sorry, gets us nowhere and serves no purpose.

But sure we can do 3 in 2020 if it makes you feel better.

Or 2 (only those traded away). whatever. I don't care.

No first round picks were traded away in 2020. They were exchanged for other first round picks. All of which were higher than 26.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

so you would rather the picks that every single team passed on multiple times? You do understand that arguement works both ways right?

You’re using a snapshot in time to say Flames, and all other 18 teams, passed on a ‘impact RHS D’.

Seems a bit undercooked to me is all.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No first round picks were traded away in 2020. They were exchanged for other first round picks. All of which were higher than 26.

Not true entirely.

The whole point was acquiring picks below the first round. Which everyone on here keeps saying have little to no value.

Again, we gave up a known blue chip rhd to do it

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You’re using a snapshot in time to say Flames, and all other 18 teams, passed on a ‘impact RHS D’.

Seems a bit undercooked to me is all.

Well we did. And it happens a lot with Ds because people like their forwards. Even Cale Makar couldn't Crack top 3 and he is literally the best since Bobby Orr so I don't really get the surprise

[Hack&Lube]

Hindsight is always great to have. If we had that miraculous thing, it would have been great for us to somehow move up to 4th and get the hometown player in Cale Makar.

Maybe when he's UFA at 29 he'll want to come home like we keep prognosticating for Johnny to want to go home.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Hindsight is always great to have. If we had that miraculous thing, it would have been great for us to somehow move up to 4th and get the hometown player in Cale Makar.

Maybe when he's UFA at 29 he'll want to come home like we keep prognosticating for Johnny to want to go home.

That would actually be amazing and part of me feels like he would consider it

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Not true entirely.

The whole point was acquiring picks below the first round. Which everyone on here keeps saying have little to no value.

Again, we gave up a known blue chip rhd to do it

Such nuance. So brave.

CGY was lacking in RHD prospects, but even more so C prospects. IIRC it seems apparent the Flames were drafting a C, and likely had a few on the board who they liked (hence the trade down).


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[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Well we did. And it happens a lot with Ds because people like their forwards. Even Cale Makar couldn't Crack top 3 and he is literally the best since Bobby Orr so I don't really get the surprise

What position does Heiskanen play?


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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Well we did. And it happens a lot with Ds because people like their forwards. Even Cale Makar couldn't Crack top 3 and he is literally the best since Bobby Orr so I don't really get the surprise

Treliving loves D. Always has. First significant move was to bring in Hamilton. Paid a ton. Then drafted two more in the same draft. Two years later, traded for Hamonic. Even in 2020, they traded 19OA for a 1st and a 3rd that turned out to be a D.

No GM bats 1.00 but you’re a little premature saying the Flames made a mistake with the way things worked out. The players are still 21 year olds. And for what it’s worth, I recall seeing Zary as high as 16 on certain pre-draft rankings. If I also recall correctly, much of the hockey media applauded Treliving’s work.

[GioforPM]

“Known blue chip RHD”.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/final...hese-go-to-120

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...final-edition/

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/n...ckey-prospects

https://www.ontheforecheck.com/2020/...ation-scouting

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/06/...ngs-june-2020/

https://www.silversevensens.com/2020...p-62-prospects

https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/sto...ition-rankings

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

we just went over it on the previous page when other people brought this up

It doesn't matter what was discussed. You're saying they're regularly trading away first rounders and it's hurting their odds of being successful in the future.

They're still drafting in the first round regularly. Who cares if they trade down. They would still pick the same player. Teams trade down in the same round because they know the player they want will still be available so if they can get extra picks out of it they might as well.