You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Hockeyguy15]

You know what's a bigger problem than WFH? Running lean and expecting employees to do what it takes to get everything done.

There is a big problem right now with "everyone has be to busy all the time" thinking.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

You know what's a bigger problem than WFH? Running lean and expecting employees to do what it takes to get everything done.

There is a big problem right now with "everyone has be to busy all the time" thinking.

In oil and gas, it’s not surprising when a huge pile of people get laid off every few years.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

You're probably right but in reality it should be the opposite. You would have to be pretty sick to not be able to work at all from home. Maybe not a lot, just answer emails etc. but everyone should still be able to function in some capacity most of the time.

This is the worst post in this entire thread. You actually agree with what you're saying here?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is the worst post in this entire thread. You actually agree with what you're saying here?

Presuming you are being paid why do you object to working if you are able to?

I don’t see it as any different then modified duty for workplace injuries. If you sprain your ankle you get to do paperwork on the computer for a few weeks until you can go back to regular duty. Why would an illness be different?

[jayswin]

It's the toxic "do everything you can for your ruler to make money or you are insufficient!" bull**** culture that takes over too many workplaces in North America, and it's spreading, and to be honest people like you two are part of the reason.

We just accept it as some sort of weird bravado thing "I'm a good dedicated employee because my company demands X and I go through a wall to produce X while these LAZY IDIOTS are are doing stupid things like staying in bed while sick.

[jayswin]

I mean even just read Lubicon's statement again and understand who his mentality benefits and what it says,

but everyone should still be able to function in some capacity most of the time.

It's absurd. A cut throat, corperation reads that and goes "good, our workplace culture tactics are taking hold, the stupid working class is doing more and more by the year for less". Do you think that honestly sounds healthy GGG? Like that sounds like something we should accept as a society in a rich country, filled with rich companies.

"You workers can always give us something!!!! Remember this each time you wake up sick. Get to your computer and give us something! You're not dead, you're sick!!".

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's the toxic "do everything you can for your ruler to make money or you are insufficient!" bull**** culture that takes over too many workplaces in North America, and it's spreading, and to be honest people like you two are part of the reason.

We just accept it as some sort of weird bravado thing "I'm a good dedicated employee because my company demands X and I go through a wall to produce X while these LAZY IDIOTS are are doing stupid things like staying in bed while sick.

So do you object to modified duty and did you before covid?

I disagree I am part of the problem. I’m not asking anyone to work when they are unable to.

As I said earlier if the only time you don’t go to work is when you can’t get out of bed you are the problem. You go to work when you are sick for the above bravado purposes. You infect your co-workers.

What I am advocating for is for employers to be more flexible in allowing WFH for a wide variety of reasons that prevent you from being in the office. Things like your child being sick which many Draconian policies don’t care about and for staying home with just minor colds which traditionally people have worked through.. In exchange for this flexibility it’s reasonable to expect people who are being paid for their time to do the work their health allows.

I’ll be the first to advocate for no unpaid labour and any off time emails or calls better be real emergencies however if you have a cold that doesn’t significantly impair your ability to do your job then you should do the work you are being paid to do. To not work the hours you are being paid for is as hypocritical if you are expecting to only work the hours you are paid for.

[jayswin]

I mean right away I reject the premise of directly comparing modified work duties through a WCB claim to staying in bed and away from work to get rid of a cold/flu etc. But no, I've never objected to modified work duties as laid out after an injury, that's absurd.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I mean right away I reject the premise of directly comparing modified work duties through a WCB claim to staying in bed and away from work to get rid of a cold/flu etc. But no, I've never objected to modified work duties as laid out after an injury, that's absurd.

Why do you object the premise?

If anything modified duties because of a workplace injury should be more abhorrent. Your work place hurt you and then you have to work instead of recovering peacefully at home.

Where do you see the difference between workers comp insurance and sick leave self insurance.

[iggy_oi]

If I were GGGs boss the next thing I would do is convince him that he can still enjoy his next vacation while getting a little work done too.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

If I were GGGs boss the next thing I would do is convince him that he can still enjoy his next vacation while getting a little work done too.

Did you read the entire premise of doing work when you are paid to do it and not doing work when you are not paid to do it.

Usually you make much better cases then this.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Did you read the entire premise of doing work when you are paid to do it and not doing work when you are not paid to do it.

Usually you make much better cases then this.

You’re paid to do work on sick days? News to me

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You’re paid to do work on sick days? News to me

Yeah, no different than modified duty. Also I’m saying we should have significantly more taken sick days. Again if the only days you weren’t working you were too sick to get out of bed you’ve been infecting people.

[curves2000]

I think some of the debate here with regards to WFH, working while your sick, answering some emails with a cold/sore throat at the office etc was part of the whole problem in some ways with Covid and lockdowns.

There was an entire segment of society who was WFH in a lot of ways, with some of the pro's and the con's associated with that while a lot of people who couldn't WFH, just did it. Kept the economy running so to speak.

The real question for some of the debate that may swing people's answer to WFH while sick/sickish is who's actually footing the bill? If your a salaried employee and have sick days and your not losing income as a result, than I get it. Rest up, stay home, come back when your feeling better, work if you can/want etc.

Does the same line of thinking with WFH while sick apply if you were to take your calculated hourly rate and hypothetically get paid for a few hours with some emails, calls, spreadsheets, projects, presentations etc?

We are all adults and we've all been sick before, it can suck, and suck bad. Sometimes it's ok to admit were taking advantage of our sick days even though we can probably make it through the day. Sometimes your bed ridden and some days it's sniffles, a cough and some aches and pains. Sometimes people go on about their day as a day off while sick and not working.

Some people these days make it seem like typing on a computer and filling out paperwork with a minor cold is like being on the Ukrainian front lines. Relax! Just remember, nothing is actually free in this world, someone is paying the bill. People's attitude usually changes when its costing them money. It's ok to admit that.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Yeah, no different than modified duty. Also I’m saying we should have significantly more taken sick days. Again if the only days you weren’t working you were too sick to get out of bed you’ve been infecting people.

One is part of a rehabilitation program and the other is a benefit.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

One is part of a rehabilitation program and the other is a benefit.

Why should they be treated differently? Why aren’t both “rehab” programs or both “benefits”. I think there could be a reasonable argument made for when you can’t do all of your job your job is to stay home and recover and also a reasonable argument that we should increase the amount of time acceptable to do most but not all of your job.

But to hold the position that injuries need modified duties but sickness needs full time off makes no sense.

At best I can see it from the labour argument if that’s what the contract says so that’s how we do things but that isn’t a good way to form an opinion. So if you were redesigning a workers comp program would you advocate for modified duties or recover from home. Or if you were designing a sick leave program would you change anything from the pre-Covid come to work unless you are bed ridden philosophy that Jayswin appears to be advocating.

How would you improve the system?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why should they be treated differently? Why aren’t both “rehab” programs or both “benefits”. I think there could be a reasonable argument made for when you can’t do all of your job your job is to stay home and recover and also a reasonable argument that we should increase the amount of time acceptable to do most but not all of your job.

But to hold the position that injuries need modified duties but sickness needs full time off makes no sense.

At best I can see it from the labour argument if that’s what the contract says so that’s how we do things but that isn’t a good way to form an opinion. So if you were redesigning a workers comp program would you advocate for modified duties or recover from home. Or if you were designing a sick leave program would you change anything from the pre-Covid come to work unless you are bed ridden philosophy that Jayswin appears to be advocating.

How would you improve the system?

It's almost like the employees need to come together, agree on a list of things they'd like to have from their employer, elect leaders to negotiate these things on their behalf, and be prepared to strike if they're not met. I wonder what that is?

[undercoverbrother]

Toronto Grinds My Gears.

I'm stuck working downtown, it's cold, grey and raining.

Also, #### is far to expensive in this city.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Toronto Grinds My Gears.

I'm stuck working downtown, it's cold, grey and raining.

Also, #### is far to expensive in this city.

Toronto sucks ass. I wish you the best of luck.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's the toxic "do everything you can for your ruler to make money or you are insufficient!" bull**** culture that takes over too many workplaces in North America, and it's spreading, and to be honest people like you two are part of the reason.

We just accept it as some sort of weird bravado thing "I'm a good dedicated employee because my company demands X and I go through a wall to produce X while these LAZY IDIOTS are are doing stupid things like staying in bed while sick.

I work from home when I’m a bit sick and don’t when I’m really sick. The horror.