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[GGG]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

It's called a 'Brampton Mortgage'. Marketplace did a whole expose on this. Lots of falsifying incomes, mortgage fraud and multi-generational house dwelling happening. Wouldn't be surprised if they're also paying a 10% mortgage to a non big bank.

His problem is he can’t get a mortgage. It looks like a new build he put money down on 2021 and he’s now ready to move in but can’t get a mortgage and the house value has dropped more than his 260k down payment. He also must be getting killed on interest because it quotes his payment at 12k - 15k whereas with a 30yr at 4.54% you’d be in the 8800 per month range. He’s looking at over 7% to hit the 12k number he is stating.

[Weitz]

It also says he earns money as a property manager and from a business in India. I imagine they are doing fine.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Weitz

It also says he earns money as a property manager and from a business in India. I imagine they are doing fine.

Or at least that's what his Brampton mortgage application says...

But yeah, sounds like Mr. Uber may have been a little optimistic about his mortgage prospects, plunked down the $260k to the builder and is now royally ####ed.

Edit #2 - so it seems like there was a year between contract and closing. This was no-doubt intentional and part of the brilliant plan... Buy at the low, low pre-construction discounted price of $2mm. Put down $260k to secure this glorious opportunity. By the time the build is complete in 12 months, the property would have appreciated 20%, because, like, why not? So now you can get a $2mm mortgage on a home valued at $2.4 and you get your $260k deposit back from the builder... And that's the math without the ####ery of the Brampton mortgage bro.

Edit #3 - And of course, with your $260k cash back in your hands, you're able to carry that low interest, $2mm mortgage for, 3-4 years, all while enjoying that sweet, compounding appreciation of 20%, yoy, cause that gravy train ain't ever stopping... right? So a few shenanigans in the ol' mortgage bro's office (located in Brampton), and an unreasonably (idiotically) high risk tolerance, and Mr. Uber can cash out in 4 years, when he has used up his $260k to carry his $2mm mortgage, that's now worth over $4mm and he has >$2mm in equity... Again, 'cause it would never stop... Right?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I wouldn't go that far, but seniors who cry poverty living in a single detached home is annoying when they could sell the home and rent an apartment (and invest, generating income for retirement) quite comfortably with the proceeds.

Obviously, some of them refuse to consider that.

The thing is having a detached home creates a fairly large burden on society. Government has to pay for all sorts of infrastructure to facilitate these homes: roads, electrical, drainage, water, sewers, etc...

At a certain point seniors will have to realize they can't physically keep up with the home either. When seniors stay in the homes too long, they often leave them in a state of extreme disrepair.

Because, unlike many other countries, of our property taxes being so low and our property skyrocketing in price, we've got a system where working families are now working to support the upkeep of homes they can't ever afford.

I do not have a lot of sympathy for empty nesters who refuse to downgrade to a smaller place.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

This is another story of a similar ilk:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/n...gling-to-close

It's hard to believe this is real life.



An Uber driver in Toronto at the high high end is probably making $80,000 a year. How can they afford a $1.9 million home at any rate? Even 0%?? I can't even wrap my head around it.

Originally Posted by you&me

Or at least that's what his Brampton mortgage application says...

But yeah, sounds like Mr. Uber may have been a little optimistic about his mortgage prospects, plunked down the $260k to the builder and is now royally ####ed.

Edit #2 - so it seems like there was a year between contract and closing. This was no-doubt intentional and part of the brilliant plan... Buy at the low, low pre-construction discounted price of $2mm. Put down $260k to secure this glorious opportunity. By the time the build is complete in 12 months, the property would have appreciated 20%, because, like, why not? So now you can get a $2mm mortgage on a home valued at $2.4 and you get your $260k deposit back from the builder... And that's the math without the ####ery of the Brampton mortgage bro.

Edit #3 - And of course, with your $260k cash back in your hands, you're able to carry that low interest, $2mm mortgage for, 3-4 years, all while enjoying that sweet, compounding appreciation of 20%, yoy, cause that gravy train ain't ever stopping... right? So a few shenanigans in the ol' mortgage bro's office (located in Brampton), and an unreasonably (idiotically) high risk tolerance, and Mr. Uber can cash out in 4 years, when he has used up his $260k to carry his $2mm mortgage, that's now worth over $4mm and he has >$2mm in equity... Again, 'cause it would never stop... Right?

I cannot imagine buying a house without a pre-approved mortgage in place. Just wing it and hope the financing comes through?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by you&me

Or at least that's what his Brampton mortgage application says...

But yeah, sounds like Mr. Uber may have been a little optimistic about his mortgage prospects, plunked down the $260k to the builder and is now royally ####ed.

Edit #2 - so it seems like there was a year between contract and closing. This was no-doubt intentional and part of the brilliant plan... Buy at the low, low pre-construction discounted price of $2mm. Put down $260k to secure this glorious opportunity. By the time the build is complete in 12 months, the property would have appreciated 20%, because, like, why not? So now you can get a $2mm mortgage on a home valued at $2.4 and you get your $260k deposit back from the builder... And that's the math without the ####ery of the Brampton mortgage bro.

Edit #3 - And of course, with your $260k cash back in your hands, you're able to carry that low interest, $2mm mortgage for, 3-4 years, all while enjoying that sweet, compounding appreciation of 20%, yoy, cause that gravy train ain't ever stopping... right? So a few shenanigans in the ol' mortgage bro's office (located in Brampton), and an unreasonably (idiotically) high risk tolerance, and Mr. Uber can cash out in 4 years, when he has used up his $260k to carry his $2mm mortgage, that's now worth over $4mm and he has >$2mm in equity... Again, 'cause it would never stop... Right?

That’s not how mortgages work. It’s always lower of purchase price or current value used for financing.

But he could get a private and then refinance after 6 months or a year, then your plan works.



Also, many people buy new builds with only a pre-approval in place, which aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. Some lenders offer new build 12 month guarantees but the rates suck so no one uses them. Plus with how long construction takes, many expired.

Probably 90% of people who buy new builds just wing it and pray they still qualify at possession. Many who don’t end up getting private mortgages at double digit interest rates with five figure application and renewal fees.


The guy in this story is just a straight up moron or a liar. No one is getting a $1.5 or whatever million mortgage on $80k year not matter what rates are.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

That’s not how mortgages work. It’s always lower of purchase price or current value used for financing.

But he could get a private and then refinance after 6 months or a year, then your plan works.



Also, many people buy new builds with only a pre-approval in place, which aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. Some lenders offer new build 12 month guarantees but the rates suck so no one uses them. Plus with how long construction takes, many expired.

Probably 90% of people who buy new builds just wing it and pray they still qualify at possession. Many who don’t end up getting private mortgages at double digit interest rates with five figure application and renewal fees.


The guy in this story is just a straight up moron or a liar. No one is getting a $1.5 or whatever million mortgage on $80k year not matter what rates are.

You're right, that's how legitimate mortgages work.

Welcome to the world of mortgage fraud.

[GGG]

Are these articles published to garner sympathy or are they actually to get the reasonably well put together people to sneer at people who screw up. If it’s the latter we are leaning into the creation of poverty porn stories.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by you&me

You're right, that's how legitimate mortgages work.

Welcome to the world of mortgage fraud.

Lol. No that’s not fraud. It’s just not how mortgages work.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The guy in this story is just a straight up moron or a liar. No one is getting a $1.5 or whatever million mortgage on $80k year not matter what rates are.

They do in Brampton. CBC did an excellent expose on it here, worth a read to understand

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...raud-1.6614132

Had the uber driver have the market continue to go as planned, with historically low rates and skyrocketing prices, with the help of a fraudulent mortgage, they could instantly net 100-200K profit out of thin air and either collect that free cash by selling on assignment or holding for a bit and sell even higher after closing.

This was the Canadian dream that has existed for the past 15 years. And many Canadians have taken advantage of it and reaped the free cash instantly granting themselves financial genius status.

What wasn't accounted for is the possibility of both prices going down and rates going back to historical averages so quickly. So now this guy is stuck with an underwater property that he cannot ever afford to make payments but liable for.

Which is why he and several other blokes are protesting in front of the developer and why CBC carries their story to attempt to public shame the developer into voiding their contract. They gambled and lost, and trying to cheat their way out.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Firebot

They do in Brampton.

Had the uber driver have the market continue to go as planned, with historically low rates and skyrocketing prices, with the help of a fraudulent mortgage, they could instantly net 100-200K profit out of thin air and either collect that free cash by selling on assignment or holding for a bit and sell even higher after closing.

This was the Canadian dream that has existed for the past 15 years. And many Canadians have taken advantage of it and reaped the free cash instantly granting themselves financial genius status.

What wasn't accounted for is the possibility of both prices going down and rates going back to historical averages so quickly. So now this guy is stuck with an underwater property that he cannot ever afford to make payments but liable for.

Which is why he and several other blokes are protesting in front of the developer and why CBC carries their story to attempt to public shame the developer into voiding their contract. They gambled and lost, and trying to cheat their way out.

Is that the only answer anyone has is “well it must have been fraud!”?

Yeah totally. Fraudsters are constantly going to the news and complaining their fraud schemes didn’t work.

Are you guys for real? An assignment of sale isn’t fraud. It might be what he planned, but it isn’t fraud.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Firebot

They do in Brampton. CBC did an excellent expose on it here, worth a read to understand

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...raud-1.6614132

Had the uber driver have the market continue to go as planned, with historically low rates and skyrocketing prices, with the help of a fraudulent mortgage, they could instantly net 100-200K profit out of thin air and either collect that free cash by selling on assignment or holding for a bit and sell even higher after closing.

This was the Canadian dream that has existed for the past 15 years. And many Canadians have taken advantage of it and reaped the free cash instantly granting themselves financial genius status.

What wasn't accounted for is the possibility of both prices going down and rates going back to historical averages so quickly. So now this guy is stuck with an underwater property that he cannot ever afford to make payments but liable for.

Which is why he and several other blokes are protesting in front of the developer and why CBC carries their story to attempt to public shame the developer into voiding their contract. They gambled and lost, and trying to cheat their way out.

"Lol. No that’s not fraud. It’s just not how mortgages work."

[The Fonz]

Reminder that the monthly CPI release comes out on Wednesday, and they're forecasting 6.7%. This will be the 4th consecutive month it's spent stalled at this level (previous 3 were 6.9%, 6.9%, and 7.0%).

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Is that the only answer anyone has is “well it must have been fraud!”?

Yeah totally. Fraudsters are constantly going to the news and complaining their fraud schemes didn’t work.

Are you guys for real? An assignment of sale isn’t fraud. It might be what he planned, but it isn’t fraud.

I added the link to my post.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by you&me

"Lol. No that’s not fraud. It’s just not how mortgages work."

Well if you knew anything about how the industry works, you’d know that the scenarios you described and firebox described have nothing to do with the article. But you’re talking out your ass so I’m not surprised.

Oh it’s a scheme to falsely inflate the purchase price, no wait it’s an income fraud scheme, no wait it’s an assignment of sale scheme.

Just throwing out a bunch of words you don’t understand doesn’t make you right.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Firebot

I added the link to my post.

Which still has nothing to do with anything you and OP talked about in your posts.

If either of you wanted to accuse this guy of using fraudulent income documents, you would have said that. But you didn’t. So you’re wrong.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

The fact Yoho is thanking your posts by default means I’m correct lol. He’s like the anti truth.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well if you knew anything about how the industry works, you’d know that the scenarios you described and firebox described have nothing to do with the article. But you’re talking out your ass so I’m not surprised.

Oh it’s a scheme to falsely inflate the purchase price, no wait it’s an income fraud scheme, no wait it’s an assignment of sale scheme.

Just throwing out a bunch of words you don’t understand doesn’t make you right.

I don't recall stating that assignment is fraud (nor did anyone). The uber driver also doesn't have a mortgage at this point. Go back to your statement.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The guy in this story is just a straight up moron or a liar. No one is getting a $1.5 or whatever million mortgage on $80k year not matter what rates are.

Your words. No one is not getting a 1.5 million mortgage on 80k no matter what.

So what option does that person have?

First option: they never planned on holding the house and wanted to sell on assignment and cash in on the appreciating value. This is certainly a get rich scheme, but totally legal today. Assignment may or may not be allowed by this developer and may not even be an option.

His other option, is falsifying income where you aren't getting a 1.5 million mortgage on 80k but getting one on 200-300K income on paper. That is the scenario that was unearthed as mortgage fraud and rampant particularly in Brampton and likely to be one of the scenario based on the story provided.

Care to enlighten us and share other scenarios this uber driver could legitimately buy a 2 million dollar house, regardless of rates that doesn't involve a scheme or fraud? Because he clearly was doing one of these two.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Firebot

I don't recall stating that assignment is fraud (nor did anyone). The uber driver also doesn't have a mortgage at this point. Go back to your statement.



Your words. No one is not getting a 1.5 million mortgage on 80k no matter what.

So what option does that person have?

First option: they never planned on holding the house and wanted to sell on assignment and cash in on the appreciating value. This is certainly a get rich scheme, but totally legal today. Assignment may or may not be allowed by this developer and may not even be an option.

His other option, is falsifying income where you aren't getting a 1.5 million mortgage on 80k but getting one on 200-300K income on paper. That is the scenario that was unearthed as mortgage fraud and rampant particularly in Brampton and likely to be one of the scenario based on the story provided.

Care to enlighten us and share other scenarios this uber driver could legitimately buy a 2 million dollar house, regardless of rates that doesn't involve a scheme or fraud? Because he clearly was doing one of these two.

Further to this, no one is specifically accusing the Uber driver of committing the fraud (no one knows), but it sure as #### wasn't straight up legitimate.

It wouldn't be the first time that a mortgage bro took advantage of an uneducated/unsophisticated buyer for their own gain... "Sure bro, I can't totally get you into that $2mm build"... "Don't worry about the numbers I put on your app bro; I know what the banks want to see"...

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Reminder that the monthly CPI release comes out on Wednesday, and they're forecasting 6.7%. This will be the 4th consecutive month it's spent stalled at this level (previous 3 were 6.9%, 6.9%, and 7.0%).

6.7% sounds a bit optimistic if anything, as that would require zero or slightly negative month-over-month inflation.

But staying around this number on year-over-year numbers is basically an inevitability given how everything was timed. Barring significant month-over-month deflation, the annual number was never really coming down to any great degree until the highest monthly inflation rates from early 2022 start falling out of the year-over-year data.

Similar to how house prices are still up year-over-year despite months of declines because of how much the gains from late 2021 and early 2022 are still influencing the annual data.