Solar power systems for the home

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Mayo

When you guys say 20 years to pay out - is that considering a discount rate?

In other words - if you spend an additional $20k on a solar roof are you literally saving $20k in 20 years and thus should have just invested that money and turned it into $100k

I'm mostly interested in the 500% gains you are finding elsewhere by "investing" over 20 years.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'm mostly interested in the 500% gains you are finding elsewhere by "investing" over 20 years.

5x in 20 years is only 8.4% compounded. That's probably a bit higher than you can expect from the stock market in the next 20 years given the starting valuation, but it isn't way out of line either.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Mayo

When you guys say 20 years to pay out - is that considering a discount rate?

In other words - if you spend an additional $20k on a solar roof are you literally saving $20k in 20 years and thus should have just invested that money and turned it into $100k

Likely no. It's probably more like a simple calculation of something like:

$10,000 / $40 savings/month = 250 months = 20 ish years.

You can do a more accurate calculation with discount rates etc. but you'll just come to a similar conclusion, it's not worth it yet (especially in Alberta where electricity is damn cheap).

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'm mostly interested in the 500% gains you are finding elsewhere by "investing" over 20 years.

Canadian banks. Boring as hell incremental increase. 20 years later though, it's way better than a typical mutual fund, savings account, GIC etc. in returns IMO.

RY for instance went from around $10 to $80 today. That's also not taking into account the dividend it pays (and if you had reinvested it).

[PaperBagger'14]

If solar does ever take off though, southern Alberta has (i believe) the most sunny days on average in Canada. We would be in great shape to supply energy when the tech rounds the corner

[edslunch]

My wife’s company is working on some innovative technology for residential alternative energy combining solar, batteries, and other pieces in a scalable DIY solution. While solar costs have way down their research finds that the drivers are not cost savings but energy security and environmental concerns (particularly both if people don’t want generators). I was skeptical that people would invest in a system for backup given how infrequently we lose power, but apparently it’s a huge deal in the southern and western US due to storms, brownouts, etc. I guess also non-urban areas in Canada.

She asked if I could post a question here. Don’t worry, this isn’t a sales lead - they are still in the development stage.

Is there anything in your home/vacation property that would be inconvenient (or worse) to have it go without power for several hours or longer; without either knowing it or being able to do anything about it?

Fridge

Freezer

Fish tank

Pet heater

Sump pump

Pipe warmer in winter

Internet

Security lighting

Medical equipment

Being able to charge your phone or laptop (power does not always go out when these are fully charged)

Alarm clock (some still use these)

Access to news in an emergency (not everyone likes using a cell phone for this)

Other

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by edslunch

My wife’s company is working on some innovative technology for residential alternative energy combining solar, batteries, and other pieces in a scalable DIY solution. While solar costs have way down their research finds that the drivers are not cost savings but energy security and environmental concerns (particularly both if people don’t want generators). I was skeptical that people would invest in a system for backup given how infrequently we lose power, but apparently it’s a huge deal in the southern and western US due to storms, brownouts, etc. I guess also non-urban areas in Canada.

She asked if I could post a question here. Don’t worry, this isn’t a sales lead - they are still in the development stage.

Is there anything in your home/vacation property that would be inconvenient (or worse) to have it go without power for several hours or longer; without either knowing it or being able to do anything about it?

Fridge

Freezer

Fish tank

Pet heater

Sump pump

Pipe warmer in winter

Internet

Security lighting

Medical equipment

Being able to charge your phone or laptop (power does not always go out when these are fully charged)

Alarm clock (some still use these)

Access to news in an emergency (not everyone likes using a cell phone for this)

Other

Hot tub - would probably take over 24hrs to freeze but damn expensive if it does

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Is there anything in your home/vacation property that would be inconvenient (or worse) to have it go without power for several hours or longer; without either knowing it or being able to do anything about it?

Fridge

Freezer

Fish tank

Pet heater

Sump pump

Pipe warmer in winter

Internet

Security lighting

Medical equipment

Being able to charge your phone or laptop (power does not always go out when these are fully charged)

Alarm clock (some still use these)

Access to news in an emergency (not everyone likes using a cell phone for this)

Other

These three for sure are deal breakers because they involve either safety or the integrity of the property itself. The other items are mainly convenience.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by edslunch

My wife’s company is working on some innovative technology for residential alternative energy combining solar, batteries, and other pieces in a scalable DIY solution. While solar costs have way down their research finds that the drivers are not cost savings but energy security and environmental concerns (particularly both if people don’t want generators). I was skeptical that people would invest in a system for backup given how infrequently we lose power, but apparently it’s a huge deal in the southern and western US due to storms, brownouts, etc. I guess also non-urban areas in Canada.

She asked if I could post a question here. Don’t worry, this isn’t a sales lead - they are still in the development stage.

Is there anything in your home/vacation property that would be inconvenient (or worse) to have it go without power for several hours or longer; without either knowing it or being able to do anything about it?

Fridge

Freezer

Fish tank

Pet heater

Sump pump

Pipe warmer in winter

Internet

Security lighting

Medical equipment

Being able to charge your phone or laptop (power does not always go out when these are fully charged)

Alarm clock (some still use these)

Access to news in an emergency (not everyone likes using a cell phone for this)

Other

In Alberta, the biggest headache likely would be the furnace/thermostat getting wonky and somehow not re-engaging when the power comes back. That's a risk of freezing pipes in the winter.

Medical equipment, yes. But don't those usually have back up batteries built into them specifically in case of power loss?

Most alarm clocks and clocks in general have a battery to keep the time in case of loss of power. But clocks on stoves and microwaves etc. are kinda a PITA to reprogram, especially if the method to adjust the clock (ie: a clock button) isn't obvious without having to find the manual.

Lights during a black out are annoying if you stumble around your home, sure. But it's far less an issue now that all phones basically have a flashlight function built in.

Most other things are whatever with a loss of power for a few hours (fridge, pumps etc.). Longer term (and likely beyond the battery capabilities of the set up anyways) it's perhaps frustrating.

The battery capabilities to avoid electronics damage or weird issues restarting during minor things like brown outs would be something I think is important and valuable. But this is perhaps the only one I can think of.

Charging phones and tablets, might suck. But many people have power banks or can plug the phone into a car USB port to charge it.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Hot tub - would probably take over 24hrs to freeze but damn expensive if it does

What if you need it to return from an epic ski trip from 1986?

[Azure]

Seems like the biggest plus for solar would be using what you generate as energy, and not actually try to get to the point where you sell it back.

What is the payback if you factor in a EV with daily charging and usage?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Azure

Seems like the biggest plus for solar would be using what you generate as energy, and not actually try to get to the point where you sell it back.

What is the payback if you factor in a EV with daily charging and usage?

It would probably be better, because you're right that power you personally use has a better return than selling because of the extra variable costs you save when you don't buy from the grid.

But peak generation is during the middle of the day. Most people who drive their car a bunch every day have it parked somewhere else during the middle of the day (work). If you had a long commute but worked nights that would probably improve the economics.

Although the best EV economics are where you can plug in somewhere (eg work) for free.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Azure

Seems like the biggest plus for solar would be using what you generate as energy, and not actually try to get to the point where you sell it back.

What is the payback if you factor in a EV with daily charging and usage?

Depends how you set up your system. Is there battery storage? What hours do you typically work? Would your system be tied to your house panel or a closed system specifically to charge your vehicle?

Worst case scenario, if you have 0 battery storage and work a 9-5 job with the system tied only to your EV there will be 0 benefit in the winter. Sun rises at what, 8:30 am and sets at 4:30 so you will see 0 charge assuming driving time.

There are quite a few variables to your question, that makes it quite difficult to answer.

[Azure]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that you obviously need battery storage.

I assumed most people would be getting that.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sorry, I should have mentioned that you obviously need battery storage.

I assumed most people would be getting that.

I think the vast majority don't get batteries. They're really expensive, and you still need an inverter, so using the grid as a battery is way cheaper. Especially give how reliable our power is here.

[Azure]

Yeah, thats true.

Most residential use cases seem pretty limited unless you have battery and a EV.

On the commercial side, even a 200kW system has a 15 year payback at best.

[Street Pharmacist]

I really wonder how beneficial bidirectional charging would be? If you have an EV and don't mind losing 5-10km from time to time, it could balance the grid and provide back up power if there's a disruption.

[Bigtime]

Stats from our solar in March:

Overall power usage of 295.11 kWh, of which solar accounted for 40% of that at 116.92 kWh.

The solar itself produced 355.12 kWh and 238.2 kWh was exported onto the grid.

A lot of the power usage when solar isn't available was the furnace turning on in the early morning and on cloudy/colder days, plus the oven/electric stovetop as another big draw. Looking forward to the warmer months when the furnace won't even go on, could easily see solar going well over 50% of our coverage.

[Calgary14]

Originally Posted by edslunch

My wife’s company is working on some innovative technology for residential alternative energy combining solar, batteries, and other pieces in a scalable DIY solution. While solar costs have way down their research finds that the drivers are not cost savings but energy security and environmental concerns (particularly both if people don’t want generators). I was skeptical that people would invest in a system for backup given how infrequently we lose power, but apparently it’s a huge deal in the southern and western US due to storms, brownouts, etc. I guess also non-urban areas in Canada.

She asked if I could post a question here. Don’t worry, this isn’t a sales lead - they are still in the development stage.

Is there anything in your home/vacation property that would be inconvenient (or worse) to have it go without power for several hours or longer; without either knowing it or being able to do anything about it?

Fridge

Freezer

Fish tank

Pet heater

Sump pump

Pipe warmer in winter

Internet

Security lighting

Medical equipment

Being able to charge your phone or laptop (power does not always go out when these are fully charged)

Alarm clock (some still use these)

Access to news in an emergency (not everyone likes using a cell phone for this)

Other

Freezer - a couple months ago a breaker tripped on the deep freeze in the basement and the freezer stopped drawing power. I had to toss about $400 in meats etc in the freezer that sat for a few days at room temp

I keep meaning to get one of those temp sensors for the freezer

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Stats from our solar in March:

Overall power usage of 295.11 kWh, of which solar accounted for 40% of that at 116.92 kWh.

The solar itself produced 355.12 kWh and 238.2 kWh was exported onto the grid.

A lot of the power usage when solar isn't available was the furnace turning on in the early morning and on cloudy/colder days, plus the oven/electric stovetop as another big draw. Looking forward to the warmer months when the furnace won't even go on, could easily see solar going well over 50% of our coverage.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason you can't use 100% solar energy is because you aren't allowed to store the energy you produced? So you are forced to use grid energy essentially whenever it's dark out.

I wonder if you could MacGyver 12 car batteries together and use that, unbeknownst to the authorities.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

What if you need it to return from an epic ski trip from 1986?

Dunno...check Loogle...